Overlapping Dmg and Crit Bonuses

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:58 pm

Just a little info to help out the devs with making items.
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Massive Crits

In my testing with Massive Crits I have found that when there are multiple Massive Crit modifiers on a weapon the game uses the LOWEST modifier.

I tested Greataxes. One with only Massive Crits 20. The other with Massive Crits 5, 10, and 20 on same axe.

Base dmg was 1d12+12. Max crit with base dmg = 72.

Max crit acheived with the single 20 was 92dmg.
Max crit acheived with the triple Massive Crit axe was 77.
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Bonus Dmg

As for using same dmg type for bonus dmg, the results weren't as bad.
I found that bonus dmg of same type didn't stack, but used the highest modifier.

Again, 2 Greataxes. One with +20 slash and +20 pierce. The other with +20slash and +15slash.

Again, base dmg was 1d12+12. Max base dmg = 24

Max dmg achieved with the 20slash/20pierce was 64 dmg.
Max dmg achieved with the 20slash/15slash was 44 dmg.
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That being said...
This could use a little checking:

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:35 am

And this:

Elagneros · Post by **Elagneros** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:07 pm

I've also noticed that some of those attack bonuses vs. crit also don't stack up either. On weapons that are +3 and +3 vs. chaotic, it's not a +6 vs. chaotic, but the same attack bonus for everything.

Marah Telexus · Post by **Marah Telexus** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:07 pm

I've also noticed that job bonus, such as +1 ab vs. outsiders. If you have a +3 enchantment weapon then finish this job it actually gives you 2 less AB vs. outsiders. So, taking jobs actually hinders you.

PeregrineV · Post by **PeregrineV** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:26 pm

Yeah, the bonus are of type enchantment, and the highest prevails, it does not stack.

http://www.nsrealm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=4069

MasterYoda · Post by **MasterYoda** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:50 pm

Well while were here on the subject does overwelming crit add to the damage after multiplier or is it nnegated since the weapons ..... Well the majority already have massive crit added into them?

Cluster · Post by **Cluster** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:11 am

Overwhelming crit and Massive crit do not stack. And from what i see here, i would guess the lowest one is picked, as per jesters testing.

Nemesis Revised · Post by **Nemesis Revised** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:18 am

if the lowest is picked. then maybe it should be better to just add it in one massive crit.

example instead of 2d12 and 1d4 just make it something like 2d14 or 2d16

Core · Post by **Core** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:26 am

I don't think there is anything higher then 2d12 is in the toolset. Might need to make a custom value which I have no idea how painful that is to do.

There is solid numbers that might work, Massive criticals +15 damage or even +20 damage but at that point the toolset is also limited. Dunno if it's a worthwhile way to do it, they've probably been over it before.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:06 am

2d10 is 11 avg dmg
2d12 is 13 avg dmg

So the solid numbers provide for a little improvement still.

Death Dealer1 · Post by **Death Dealer1** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:45 pm

so just make 2d12=+15 damage

Post by **Flailer** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:57 pm

Death Dealer1 wrote:so just make 2d12=+15 damage

No dice - with 2d12 you can still get as low as 4 on that roll, and that's a good thing.

If the mass crits don't stack that is indeed disappointing. If folks can test and confirm that, that'd be great.

Core · Post by **Core** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:25 pm

Not even sure if the normal damage stack, was testing a dwarven burial great axe (1d6s+2d12s) vs a djinni blade (2d10s) today, actually had very similar damage results. That's just not right a 2 hander should at least be doing more average damage per hit from x1.5 str bonus alone. Just messing around with a few swings but seem'd a little off, not a perfect test situation but it might also need a look at.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:35 pm

Using solid dmg amounts like +15, +10, etc. for massive crits isn't as bad since they only happen on crits.
+1d6 dmg is way more powerful than +1d6 massive crits
the dmg gets added every hit and is multiplied with crit modifier.
massive crits only get added on crits and is NOT included in the multiplication of dmg.

Death Dealer1 · Post by **Death Dealer1** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:21 am

which is kind of what i was saying..replace the double massive crit bonuses...1d4+2d12 with a steady +12 to +15. since they get added on they aren't as diabolical and it only comes into play on higher end weapons anyway. this type of reasoning would go a long way in saying that this is also what makes them better than the low end gear..the values start to become steady and reliable.