Hello fellow Aetherians! I must have tripped and hit my head, but I suddenly had a flood of ideas For NS4 somewhat inspired by NS3 but using the great faction & territory system of NS4 and expanding on it by adding to the existing world without using (admit it!) a cop-out method like the Nexus of NS3... This wouldn't negate the upcoming planar areas but would help flesh/balance out the world and give the level 30+'s something to do other than punking.
There are 7 factions and 7 equippable items other than armour, weapon or shield, and 7 weapons that CAN? drop from the final bosses of each. Possibly later there could be a shrine near Avendel {-like the one that's there by the black hills entrance-} where you could trade a full set of the 7 items for 1 suit of armour (your choice of heavyness) or incorporate that into the planar rifts.
ALL these epic areas should be:
1. IMPOSSIBLE TO SOLO (well, it would give the elite builders something to work at over and over)
2. ACCESS LIMITED by unlocking them with a KEY - this key is dropped by each faction's LEADER (thus creating more faction invasions since each party member will have to have a key to enter) Possibly don't use any Job-related leaders? but it may be better TO do it then you'd have more people defending.
3. CAMPING PROHIBITED - could be done by making the final boss area a non-location save area like the G1 lair of ns3.5
4. FACTION LIMITED? - not sure if this is a good idea, but each epic area should not be enterable by a member of the faction it is tied to.
Now keep in mind I wrote this up in only 10 mins so I could have missed some existing NS3 boss that would be better suited, but this is more of a working-idea to see how both the developers/DMs and players respond...
THE 7 EPIC ZONES:
1.ANCIENT ONES
WHERE?- Isle of the Dead - A dock off of the eastern shores near sleeth
BOSS?-- Lich King & Draco - protected by: Trogoldytes, and other reptillians
WEAPN?- Greater staff of Death?
ITEM?-- Cloak of the Dead (ie: +7 Will or Death magic immune increase?)
2.RAGNAR'S KIN
WHERE?- Underground Fortress - Somewhere below/near RK
BOSS?-- Moradin - protected by: demon dwarfs (smurfs!)
WEAPN?- Warhammer
ITEM?-- Boots of Mordain (con bonus? dodge bonus?)
3.MYSTRAL ASCENDENCY
WHERE?- Bottomless Pit - Secret mountain passage in the NW ash mountains
BOSS?-- Darken Rahl - protected by: Dark Followers and Dark Archons
WEAPN?- Katana
ITEM?-- Gloves of Stealth (dex, hide/move silent bonus)
4.SHADOW LEGION
WHERE?- Demon Web Pits - Below the underdark (use the underdark tileset already it rox!)
BOSS?-- Spider Queen Lloth or Exhaulted - protected by: demons, demon goblins & spiders
WEAPN?- Light Flail?
ITEM?-- Belt
5.THE NORTHERN COALITION
WHERE?- City in the clouds - An island near Daeron, or a city/castle in the clouds?
BOSS?-- Celestial Lord? or Sky/Sabar?? protected by many angelic 'good' outsiders?
WEAPN?- Morning Star [Star of the Gods?]
ITEM? - Helm (Celestial helm? cleric/paly slots?)
6.THE CIRCLE
WHERE?- Dead Woods - magical transition between 2 trees?
BOSS?-- Quith'yot? Or possibly an insane hermit (shifter with dragon shape)? - hatchlings and beasts
WEAPN?- Quarterstaff or Club?
ITEM?-- Ring? [regen? fire resist?]
7.THE LAST ALLIANCE
WHERE?- Evenbadderlands - In or below the Badlands or below NS sewers?
BOSS?-- NS Ex-Ruler (An (now devil/demon) Dictator from the past that used to rule over all of Aetheria) - protected by: Beholders? or other magical beasts that have been underutilized
WEAPN?- [censored] sword?
ITEM?-- Amulet?
So what do you think??
Epic expansion ideas/organized brainstorm!!!
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TheBestDeception
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How do you make something impossible to solo? Do you base the monsters off an AC of 39 (STR based heavy armor fighter, no tumble) or 78 (Dragonshape with monk, no armor skin)? Even though NS is a mid-level magic place, the type of character one is capable of making has a huge effect on what damage they are capable of avoiding, and that makes mobs easier for some than others.Jain wrote:1. IMPOSSIBLE TO SOLO (well, it would give the elite builders something to work at over and over)
But, it's such a draining job that, until you've DMed on an NWN server yourself, you the playerbase, have got to cut the DMs some slack. - Flailer
how? well I am not well versed in CR, but I would think to keep the CR down, you could do a few things based on logic, it's easy to make a build to fight a particular boss, but what if the boss is combined with complimentary support?
1. True Seeing - to get rid of SD cheese tactics (ex: Shiv'Las, Sleeth leaders)
2. Small boss rooms - to eliminate luring, mob-snagging and resting (ex: the Amazon Princess and Uknown Evil) with a one-way door in, teleport out.
3. Good combinations - i know the AI isn't the most advanced (ie: melencia guardians buffing animals with SR) but if you combine mages with a melee-based boss who are scripted to buff the boss on-site of enemy, or a mage boss that is supported by melee guards, an undead boss supported by necromancers that 'harm' the boss, and use neg bursts, stone bones, etc.. (ie: Arigon and his mistress/archers of Ns3, Amazon Princess supported by lanceresses and mages, Lagnar/Tagnar, Ns3's Darken Rahl and elites, etc..)
4. Power-build the bosses and henchmen - since players aren't allowed to, you could make that druid/shifter/monk, bard/rdd/pm, paladin/blackguard/cot, rogue/assassin/sd? and/or build as efficiently as possible - make the boss and her immediate henchmen compliment eachother's strengths to combine into a greater whole (ex: just like PC parties should be!)
5. Healing bosses - healing potions on the bosses instead of ability/spells so players can't interrupt or counterspell? (ex: even the Amazon Ritualists are a pain because they usually premonition themselves and heal multiple times)
6. Nice items (that don't drop) - do items raise CR? if not, you could make the bosses and their henchmen have differing resists, give them a mords rod that could debuff a mage or just lower the SR of a fighter, or a sphere that grants shadowshield 5x? Haste potions, eth.visage pots, etc...
7. Random spawns - if the final boss room is bigger, you could make floor-triggers that spawn random lower level mobs (ex: the final room of DWP in Ns3 spawns random mobs if you walk around, making it hard for a mage to wander off and rest/recharge while a tank keeps the boss(es) busy)
1. True Seeing - to get rid of SD cheese tactics (ex: Shiv'Las, Sleeth leaders)
2. Small boss rooms - to eliminate luring, mob-snagging and resting (ex: the Amazon Princess and Uknown Evil) with a one-way door in, teleport out.
3. Good combinations - i know the AI isn't the most advanced (ie: melencia guardians buffing animals with SR) but if you combine mages with a melee-based boss who are scripted to buff the boss on-site of enemy, or a mage boss that is supported by melee guards, an undead boss supported by necromancers that 'harm' the boss, and use neg bursts, stone bones, etc.. (ie: Arigon and his mistress/archers of Ns3, Amazon Princess supported by lanceresses and mages, Lagnar/Tagnar, Ns3's Darken Rahl and elites, etc..)
4. Power-build the bosses and henchmen - since players aren't allowed to, you could make that druid/shifter/monk, bard/rdd/pm, paladin/blackguard/cot, rogue/assassin/sd? and/or build as efficiently as possible - make the boss and her immediate henchmen compliment eachother's strengths to combine into a greater whole (ex: just like PC parties should be!)
5. Healing bosses - healing potions on the bosses instead of ability/spells so players can't interrupt or counterspell? (ex: even the Amazon Ritualists are a pain because they usually premonition themselves and heal multiple times)
6. Nice items (that don't drop) - do items raise CR? if not, you could make the bosses and their henchmen have differing resists, give them a mords rod that could debuff a mage or just lower the SR of a fighter, or a sphere that grants shadowshield 5x? Haste potions, eth.visage pots, etc...
7. Random spawns - if the final boss room is bigger, you could make floor-triggers that spawn random lower level mobs (ex: the final room of DWP in Ns3 spawns random mobs if you walk around, making it hard for a mage to wander off and rest/recharge while a tank keeps the boss(es) busy)
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KST_HAVOK
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this would be great but the one flaw i saw was here:
7 items 7 faction cities and you cant attack your on faction???
the "key" type of items should be droppable from one char to another then so aomeone can get all 7 not6 and be stuck needing last one
other than that i think that would be kick .......butt
7 items 7 faction cities and you cant attack your on faction???
the "key" type of items should be droppable from one char to another then so aomeone can get all 7 not6 and be stuck needing last one
other than that i think that would be kick .......butt
Well, there are many ways to handle that, that was just an idea...
I was thinking if the key is non-drop then in order for anyone to get all 7 items (assuming the items are also non-drop too) -- that would be the 8th point about 'impossible to solo' since you'd have to party to obtain your own faction's 'key' (OR turn on your own faction OR you'd have to make another character of a different faction to kill the boss, then do a REALLY fast relog and get your key with a risk of losing it to the cleanup script).
I'm personally just as happy solo as in a party, but (for me) almost nothing beats a well tuned party taking down some heavy opposition (like DWP in NS3.5 that's such a rush to beat those end bosses.. their CR is somewhere around 600 i believe ;] and even a few demon dorfs will quickly SHRED anyone trying to solo, and a SWARM of them can destroy an entire party in seconds, if they're unprepared, or foolishly try to run past them).
I was thinking if the key is non-drop then in order for anyone to get all 7 items (assuming the items are also non-drop too) -- that would be the 8th point about 'impossible to solo' since you'd have to party to obtain your own faction's 'key' (OR turn on your own faction OR you'd have to make another character of a different faction to kill the boss, then do a REALLY fast relog and get your key with a risk of losing it to the cleanup script).
I'm personally just as happy solo as in a party, but (for me) almost nothing beats a well tuned party taking down some heavy opposition (like DWP in NS3.5 that's such a rush to beat those end bosses.. their CR is somewhere around 600 i believe ;] and even a few demon dorfs will quickly SHRED anyone trying to solo, and a SWARM of them can destroy an entire party in seconds, if they're unprepared, or foolishly try to run past them).
LOL..
ok, well if you look at NS4 from a non metagaming stance, then I see your point...
SOLUTION1: the keys don't necessarily have to be obtained by killing anyone of your own faction... perhaps you can get it directly by asking (it could be a quest!?) or do a quest to obtain your faction's key (and the other faction that is friendly if not LA) that could be a bit better.
SOLUTION2: make the items and/or keys droppable so you can trade with others..but that makes kind of an underground market and lots of shouts will result, nondrop keeps the annoying shouts down.
ok, well if you look at NS4 from a non metagaming stance, then I see your point...
SOLUTION1: the keys don't necessarily have to be obtained by killing anyone of your own faction... perhaps you can get it directly by asking (it could be a quest!?) or do a quest to obtain your faction's key (and the other faction that is friendly if not LA) that could be a bit better.
SOLUTION2: make the items and/or keys droppable so you can trade with others..but that makes kind of an underground market and lots of shouts will result, nondrop keeps the annoying shouts down.
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Elagneros
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Well, there's already a Bottomless Pit and Quith'yot is part of AO, so that's out. Otherwise, it would be good to see stuff that hasn't already been used show up in NS 4, in particular HotU stuff, since both expeansions are now required.
Here's some more ideads not just for high epic areas, but also for mid and high levels as well (we don't need more areas for levels 10 and under, plenty of that already).
Here's a different idea for NC: have something like the Isle of Avalon (named differently so it's not TOO obvious, maybe Blessed Isle or something like that would be good), where a great paladin king rests with his special Holy Avenger sword. Lots of powerful paladins, clerics, bards, and celestial gaurdians.
A good entrance for the Demonweb Pits would be to link it off the Arachnid Lair. Have some high level spider infested areas before the main epic area with fiendish spiders, driders, bebiliths and the like.
Have the South Road tower dungeons eventually link up to the Nine Hells or something, possibly connected to the Catacombs and Ash Mountain tunnels/Sea Caves as well where other fiendish forces lurk. Perhaps the LA boss waits here, a powerful warlord or such that sold his soul in an attempt to rule all of Aetheria, causing the rifts to form in the first place.
The Underdark in NS needs some nice high level areas as what's down there now besides the cities is pretty boring. A city of molemen for levels 10-15 or 15-20 would be a good mid level area, while a mind flayer city for levels 20+ would also be good.
Instead of demon dwarves, how about a legion of epic dwarven defenders with nasty cheese builds?
Probably have boots with stealth for SL and a powerful con/regen type belt for RK since that seems to fit those factions better.
Instead of Quit'yot for the Circle, how about some powerful druid/shifters with Dragon Shape?
I'd like to see more desert areas to adventure in, as the Wastes of Angmar are only geared for mid levels. Maybe something off the Lost Canyon with Asabis or something that uses the Asabi models meant for high levels. A beholder city that goes down into the Underdark could go here, or in another one of the very remote regions of the map.
All those caves in the Wold along the Ancient Road perhaps could lead to a city of medusae and their stoner pets. This could be another area for the mid teens.
Might be fun to see some of the DM's favorite placeables become permanent things, like that obelisk just south of Avendell, or a monster zoo in Avendell where powerful monsters captured by adventurers are placed on display.
A pvp arena was mentioned recently; that would also be a good addition where bored players can pick fights.
Here's some more ideads not just for high epic areas, but also for mid and high levels as well (we don't need more areas for levels 10 and under, plenty of that already).
Here's a different idea for NC: have something like the Isle of Avalon (named differently so it's not TOO obvious, maybe Blessed Isle or something like that would be good), where a great paladin king rests with his special Holy Avenger sword. Lots of powerful paladins, clerics, bards, and celestial gaurdians.
A good entrance for the Demonweb Pits would be to link it off the Arachnid Lair. Have some high level spider infested areas before the main epic area with fiendish spiders, driders, bebiliths and the like.
Have the South Road tower dungeons eventually link up to the Nine Hells or something, possibly connected to the Catacombs and Ash Mountain tunnels/Sea Caves as well where other fiendish forces lurk. Perhaps the LA boss waits here, a powerful warlord or such that sold his soul in an attempt to rule all of Aetheria, causing the rifts to form in the first place.
The Underdark in NS needs some nice high level areas as what's down there now besides the cities is pretty boring. A city of molemen for levels 10-15 or 15-20 would be a good mid level area, while a mind flayer city for levels 20+ would also be good.
Instead of demon dwarves, how about a legion of epic dwarven defenders with nasty cheese builds?
Probably have boots with stealth for SL and a powerful con/regen type belt for RK since that seems to fit those factions better.
Instead of Quit'yot for the Circle, how about some powerful druid/shifters with Dragon Shape?
I'd like to see more desert areas to adventure in, as the Wastes of Angmar are only geared for mid levels. Maybe something off the Lost Canyon with Asabis or something that uses the Asabi models meant for high levels. A beholder city that goes down into the Underdark could go here, or in another one of the very remote regions of the map.
All those caves in the Wold along the Ancient Road perhaps could lead to a city of medusae and their stoner pets. This could be another area for the mid teens.
Might be fun to see some of the DM's favorite placeables become permanent things, like that obelisk just south of Avendell, or a monster zoo in Avendell where powerful monsters captured by adventurers are placed on display.
A pvp arena was mentioned recently; that would also be a good addition where bored players can pick fights.
Former leader of the Legendary Brethren.
Elagneros' Excellent Equipment Emporium
Elagneros' Excellent Equipment Emporium