Change to shifters (all shapes not just shifters)

[Eldaquen]

Just a fyi to a change which is not included in the change log affecting shifted forms. The armor bonus (dodge modifier) recieved from a person's worn boots are no longer doubled when shift into any shape. This is across all shapes: shifters, polymorph, shapechange spell, wildshape, elemental shape, and epic shape feats.

[LinuxPup]

d'oh forgot to post changes... but yes that's the main change to all polymorph forms

[LunarSquirrel]

Let's not try to hide the white elephant in this room. This was a shifter nerf. Enough people complained, and TC got screwed: and to a certain extent, AO as well. Druid shapes got hit too but it doesn't carry anywhere near the implications that it does for Shifters/Dragons.

But, as with most things that are messed with, we march on and change build compositions. Just another day in Atheria I suppose.

[LinuxPup]

Doesn't look too bad from what I've seen... still plenty of shifters in the 70+ AC range. Fairly minor IMO.

[Bargeld]

I lost more AC from EMA nerf. I forged on as well.

Natural attack AB bonus should be next on the list
But I'm willing to wait and see how this one pans out first.

[mining]

I lost more AC from EMA nerf. I forged on as well.

Natural attack AB bonus should be next on the list
But I'm willing to wait and see how this one pans out first.

You mean the dragon AB that lets them cap out at 69 AC, 67 AB self buffed? Stay away you horrible fiend!

[Bargeld]

Yes, because those stats are comparable with a str fighter, as is the damage. Plus you get all the other buffs. And other shapes for versatility (which, in previous discussion, has already been proven that NO other shape except your chosen end form is usefull for anything ).

[mining]

Yes, because those stats are comparable with a str fighter, as is the damage. Plus you get all the other buffs. And other shapes for versatility (which, in previous discussion, has already been proven that NO other shape except your chosen end form is usefull for anything ).

But we don't get awesome KD token! Or ability to use planar links! Or ability to use (etc)!

[Amoenotep]

planar link is lawful? can't you be LN? i can't remember...i don't play tc much.

the "nerf" wasn't so much a nerf as it was an adjustment to a bonus that was given when shapes were redone the last time. its been looked at again and determined that the xtra boost from the double dodge ac wasn't needed after all.

so basically, we gave you something then took it back...not so much took what you had naturally.

[Daral0085]

Can't use items while shifted. That includes planar links.

Anyway, pure fighters get a ton of pure bonuses that shifters don't get. KD token is the best, but there's also immunity to fear, undispellable FoM, free self-haste, and so forth. The damage would be pretty similar, but pure fighters get a large crit range (at least 18-20x4 for scythe, otherwise it depends on the weapon) than dragons (19-20x2). Dragons normally have good damage though.

[Amoenotep]

bringing up the bonuses for pure fighters that were scripted in to make them a viable build option isn't really a good argument vs a class thats abilities are in the game by design.

if you want to compare pure fighters then i'd suggest just comparing their base..not the tokens received for being pure.

[Mixtli]

Yes, because those stats are comparable with a str fighter, as is the damage. Plus you get all the other buffs. And other shapes for versatility (which, in previous discussion, has already been proven that NO other shape except your chosen end form is usefull for anything ).

Maybe that's why they call it a dragon? Guess we could remove that AB, bit of damage, lower saves and make firefly out of it.



We will live with this nerf, tough i doubt we will make any new shifters, except finishing the ones in progress (that have books invested in them).

On the bright side, as much as they are fun to lvl, they are terribly boring to play later...

[LinuxPup]

I'm watching a druid fire elemental with 75 AC.. seems to be quite fine after this nerf

[Amoenotep]

BUT HE DOESN'T GET PURE FIGHTER TOKENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rocketkai]

I'm watching a druid fire elemental with 75 AC.. seems to be quite fine after this nerf

The only one that can reach 75 AC with self buff would be githzerai with monk lvls. For other races or combos, they are the best getting 72ac. I would prefer to play my other 80+ ac builds any day in the week. As mix pointed out, ya won't see more new shifters or elemental druids in the near future, except the ones already in progress. It's just not worth to invest that much time and books on them anymore.