all these complaints.
1) if built RIGHT the benefits of a 2 handed weapon user are there vs a shield user.
2) no... don't do anything. its fine. I made a 2handed weapon user who devestated people. all u people are thinking way to inside the box.
3) now I'm gonna make one to hear everyone whine about 2 handers to be nerfed.
go play already.
2handed help and support
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MasterYoda
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The general consensus seems to be that 2 handers are great pvp but not pvm. This is actually to be expected. By 2-handing your chances of dying increase, but your chances of killing the enemy go up. In PvP this is fine, because:
1. In PvP a 50% death rate isn't a bad thing, but in PvM (certainly at epic) you're looking for a kill:death ratio of more like 50:1 or better.
2. PvM fights are longer because of huge mob HP and you tend to have more opponents, so you need more stability and staying power.
Lastly, in PvM 95% of all damage is caused by weapon swings, so AC and physical resist makes a big difference, but in PvP it's probably more like 60-70%, so AC makes less difference. OTOH reducing your enemy's HP is a tactic that applies equally well to both.
1. In PvP a 50% death rate isn't a bad thing, but in PvM (certainly at epic) you're looking for a kill:death ratio of more like 50:1 or better.
2. PvM fights are longer because of huge mob HP and you tend to have more opponents, so you need more stability and staying power.
Lastly, in PvM 95% of all damage is caused by weapon swings, so AC and physical resist makes a big difference, but in PvP it's probably more like 60-70%, so AC makes less difference. OTOH reducing your enemy's HP is a tactic that applies equally well to both.
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MasterYoda
- PKer
- Posts: 1251
- Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:14 pm
My 2hander was built pre planar and was able to solo zons at 21.Binkyuk wrote:The general consensus seems to be that 2 handers are great pvp but not pvm. This is actually to be expected. By 2-handing your chances of dying increase, but your chances of killing the enemy go up. In PvP this is fine, because:
1. In PvP a 50% death rate isn't a bad thing, but in PvM (certainly at epic) you're looking for a kill:death ratio of more like 50:1 or better.
2. PvM fights are longer because of huge mob HP and you tend to have more opponents, so you need more stability and staying power.
Lastly, in PvM 95% of all damage is caused by weapon swings, so AC and physical resist makes a big difference, but in PvP it's probably more like 60-70%, so AC makes less difference. OTOH reducing your enemy's HP is a tactic that applies equally well to both.
The answers are there and u just either need to build better or dont build them.
TGPO wrote:Man, dont u hate it when yoda is right
Amoenotep wrote:yeah....he's a little right
I suggest using Races and Classes with ac bonuses built in.
Earth Genasi is always a good one for the Damage resistance and giving enough time for you to wipe the enemy out.
Classes like Monk and Bard with ac bonuses would help aswell with ac. and mixed with Weapon master to exterminate the threat faster.
But as said above 2handers thrive pvp and a being able to be rounded enough to swith between weapon/shield and 2handing is key to leveling these kinda toons to a point where 2handed AC is worthwhile.
e.g. Monk/Cleric/WM with Martial or Exotic feats could end up with a nice 66ac and low to mid 50's ab. Definitely strong enough for Planar runs with plenty of buffs. Though mainly buff dependent and few weaknesses a good fun build.
Uber builds such as Havok is boasting are quite possible and fun to play.
2handed Toons are rare 2 see and require planning. Try a Build/Tester Mod off the NWNVault and play around with some builds.
Earth Genasi is always a good one for the Damage resistance and giving enough time for you to wipe the enemy out.
Classes like Monk and Bard with ac bonuses would help aswell with ac. and mixed with Weapon master to exterminate the threat faster.
But as said above 2handers thrive pvp and a being able to be rounded enough to swith between weapon/shield and 2handing is key to leveling these kinda toons to a point where 2handed AC is worthwhile.
e.g. Monk/Cleric/WM with Martial or Exotic feats could end up with a nice 66ac and low to mid 50's ab. Definitely strong enough for Planar runs with plenty of buffs. Though mainly buff dependent and few weaknesses a good fun build.
Uber builds such as Havok is boasting are quite possible and fun to play.
2handed Toons are rare 2 see and require planning. Try a Build/Tester Mod off the NWNVault and play around with some builds.
can you share some of the things that make an effective 2handed weapon build for pvm? other than "use a shield most of the time then switch to 2handed once in a while" (which is kind of a cop-out and we already know that much anyway).MasterYoda wrote: The answers are there and u just either need to build better or dont build them.
(*looking back at this growing thead*)
There are many universal 2-handed builds, and faction-only builds that can do well with a 2-hander -- ie: RDD's with their uber strength and extra AC works well, same with PM's crit immuity and AC - you can even throw on premonition+earth gen+epic mage armor and warding if you build very carefully.
One easy way is to use monk for your AC, putting extra points in wisdom and taking many monk lvls, this works especially well if you have a caster class that can buff wisdom further. OR if you don't have access to monk, you could use rogue, barb, sd or assassin for uncanny dodge, and put as much into dex as possible, but keep your STR as high as you can, a more insane option that can work out in the later levels would be to take your primary class as wizard or sorcerer-- once you have epic levels in a mage class, you can bump up your AC and DR with epic spells, as well as having elemental and spell protections, damage shields, timestop, and tenzers for AB.
As for planar mobs not working for 'the best defense is a good offense', if you can get your AB high enough, you can KD a lot of planar mobs (even guardians) so that they can't attack, as long as you can play carefully and get 1 mob at a time, or at least focus on the highest threat mob, you can do well. The build is only part of the game, the other major part is how you play.
There are many universal 2-handed builds, and faction-only builds that can do well with a 2-hander -- ie: RDD's with their uber strength and extra AC works well, same with PM's crit immuity and AC - you can even throw on premonition+earth gen+epic mage armor and warding if you build very carefully.
One easy way is to use monk for your AC, putting extra points in wisdom and taking many monk lvls, this works especially well if you have a caster class that can buff wisdom further. OR if you don't have access to monk, you could use rogue, barb, sd or assassin for uncanny dodge, and put as much into dex as possible, but keep your STR as high as you can, a more insane option that can work out in the later levels would be to take your primary class as wizard or sorcerer-- once you have epic levels in a mage class, you can bump up your AC and DR with epic spells, as well as having elemental and spell protections, damage shields, timestop, and tenzers for AB.
As for planar mobs not working for 'the best defense is a good offense', if you can get your AB high enough, you can KD a lot of planar mobs (even guardians) so that they can't attack, as long as you can play carefully and get 1 mob at a time, or at least focus on the highest threat mob, you can do well. The build is only part of the game, the other major part is how you play.
very true. i've actually explored a few alternative builds along some of the lines mentioned here. it's hard with just 1 prestige class but so far its working OK if I'm careful with armor selection and don't look for weapon master style damage numbers.Celorn wrote:as long as you can play carefully and get 1 mob at a time, or at least focus on the highest threat mob, you can do well. The build is only part of the game, the other major part is how you play.
I've also (of necessity) learned a lot of the strategy involved in playing such a toon. if i could always pull 1 or 2 mobs its ok, the issue i have is that a shielded toon doesn't need to play so cautiously and so does more than enough damage to completely negate the +1.5x damage the 2 hander is getting and then some.