Considering a build here, comments and suggestions welcome.

[Blystos Re]

Draco, from what I've seen, some people move too fast for either one by themselves.

Any brethren want to chime in? I know your guild is a little monk-happy

[-BannyD-]

just remember....you're using slashing dmg, your best weapon is only lvl 20, and you are dexed based...

must like seeing single digits

[Squikker2001]

Wow, so much feedback already!

I guess I'll throw in another suggestion. Maybe Monk/Wiz/PM. Im kinda in the mood to make a monk recently, and Im just piddling around with odd ideas that might work. Monk would be the base, then you can throw in about 5 levels of Wizard for the stat buff spells and PM, then PM for the crazy AC and a bunch of immunities, like immune to criticals, PLUS more spells up to whatever your int is.

Also, since I am a member of FoN, rogue levels are a no-no, since it would have to be NC, which disallows rogues. The PM build was just a suggestion, and maybe a future character, who knows.

And to end this post, WHAT THE H*LL was Bioware thinking by not letting unarmed strike be a WM's weapon of choice, or were they thinking? The only reason I think could POSSIBLY be is that they thought ki damage with a 1d20 weapon would be too powerful... and they have a page on their website devoted to munchkin builds.

[Mr. O'Dearly]

monk/pm not possible on ns4.

no monks in MA

[DeputyDog]

The downside to this build is the saves. Mine has a crummy fort save of like 25 so it dies instaly to alot.

Im thinking drop rogue and epic dodge in favor of more monk abilites and maybe spell resist.

The other thing is the unarmed damage is more then the kamas. I need to test one of these unarmed focus because the ab would be through the roof.

Of note after testing with the DD1s, we still think the pm/bard/ftr is the best.

Buffed I get 54 ab and 76 ac. Thats with a +6 weapon(whip)
Dirge and curse song make it so only those with huge abs can hit you.

PMs may need to be looked at becuase of this:)

[Squikker2001]

Eep. Now Algol (Tekkanomica) is going to hate me, I just gave the devs another reason to nerf PMs.

*flees*

[Celorn]

The downside to this build is the saves. Mine has a crummy fort save of like 25 so it dies instaly to alot.

Im thinking drop rogue and epic dodge in favor of more monk abilites and maybe spell resist.

The other thing is the unarmed damage is more then the kamas. I need to test one of these unarmed focus because the ab would be through the roof.

Of note after testing with the DD1s, we still think the pm/bard/ftr is the best.

Buffed I get 54 ab and 76 ac. Thats with a +6 weapon(whip)
Dirge and curse song make it so only those with huge abs can hit you.

PMs may need to be looked at becuase of this:)

I think one solution could be to make them full undead after they are epic PMs (11 or 15 pm levels+) give them immunity to death spells, and make heal spells and potions harm them, needing harm/inflict spells to heal them. The most annoying thing EVER when fighting a PM is when they heal. Perhaps even kits should be non-effective or at least less effective somehow, since how would a paramedic heal a dead body?

It's too late to enforce a crazy rule like NS3.5 has where you require wiz/sorc to become a pm, and have to take munchkin lvls before 20 on top of that -- unless you re-level all existing epic pms...

Eep. Now Algol (Tekkanomica) is going to hate me, I just gave the devs another reason to nerf PMs.

YAH!! NERF NERF!! They flaunt their imagined eliteness but it's really the class combo that's elite, anyone can make a cheesy pm build, it takes very little thought or pre-planning, and the lvl30 summons is just silly-powerful, (you'd think the BG summons at bg30 would be the most powerful since the owner isn't sneak and crit immune).

just remember....you're using slashing dmg, your best weapon is only lvl 20, and you are dexed based...

must like seeing single digits

This is true...BUT remember you're getting 2 attacks at 'full' bab, and then 2 more at only 3 less, plus the remaining lower ones... SO if you add up round-by-round, it can be as much as or more than a scythe crit, plus you can off-hand a SS, dagger or mace or a few other non-slash weapons without losing and AB or attacks.

Draco, from what I've seen, some people move too fast for either one by themselves.

Any brethren want to chime in? I know your guild is a little monk-happy

Hey! I only have 2 monks so far, and one is only a few monk levels to cheese up a potion cleric build.
-As far as testing goes, once you hit 15 levels of monk, haste does not speed you up, but leading up to 15th you can inject some nitro into monks!
-As for the bioware haste, I have a toon with 18 monk levels that can read scrolls, I'll have to test a timestop scroll and see what happens before I can say anything.

[DeputyDog]

Not ging to nerf pms, becuase there are different kinds of pms.
The lvl 30 pm 10 whatever that uses his summonand high ac to kill you.

Then the lvl 12 pm to get crit immune and 23 bard and 5 whatever which uses songs and war crys and dirges and curses to get high ac and high ab and goes full melee on you chugging away at potions.

---

I kind of like the idea of pm over 11 having to use negative to heal but i doubt it will happen. For now we will work on other classes and allow you to try and find builds that can match it. I have a few ideas that do and so do the people I have tested with, but for now, use a party and things are fine.

[Death Dealer1]

i know a pm's weakness's...i had to learn almost all of them when i was the no. 1 PM punching bag. any of them can be taken down 1 on 1 if you have the right build. i know what works against most of them and i know what works against all of them.


you can't make PM's full undead unless you want to give them a stack of immunties to go with it. as far as heal potions and stuff hurting them, you can't make a class that has very little room for regen, heal, kits to help them and expect them to live. there would have to be a trade off...like potions of harm and inflict wounds that would hurt mortals but heal the PM's....and undead summons

[algol333]

Squikker2001 said:
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:43 pm Post subject:

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Eep. Now Algol (Tekkanomica) is going to hate me, I just gave the devs another reason to nerf PMs.

*flees*

heh my pm is already done at lvl 40 and has transformed into my mule....nerf em all ya want now:)

[Celorn]

Yes... it would be more interesting anyhow, but some of us know some ways to destroy pms and/or their summons, we're just holding back because it's not too big of a problem yet .

The changes to bardsong were perfect, so bard/pms can't have the really deadly curse song they used to be able to get, but at the same time, bards that stay focused get a much more powerful song (just too bad the stronger song doesn't overpower the weaker one somehow...)

Anyhow, I am working on builds that can handle crit/sneak immune mobs, so PCs are not much different, except they sometimes act smarter...sometimes.

[kgb]

I actually prefer ftr/clr/mnk over taking rog or wm levels.

My toon took animal domain for the cats grace coupled with the owls wisdom to buff up my ac.

I alternate between str and dex for my bonus attributes have an ac in the mid 50's when buffed.

I get 8 attacks per rd (9 with flurry) thanks to impr 2-wpn and ambi. I get the -3 neg att progression instead of the std -5. I darkfire and divine favour for extra dam.

I have the flexibility to go 2 storm kamas, kama & tempest, kama & piranha, fire fists, or any two wpns i like losing 2 attacks (still get 6).

I have got impr evasion, IKD, 50% conceal from duergar and am loving it!