Oh where has my Darkness gone?

Falazure- · Post by **Falazure-** » Mon May 22, 2006 10:52 am

This actually sounds good,maybe minus some concealment to the enemy if possible,if they dont use uv or somethin.As it was before the bugged darkness was a bit insane for lvling.As it is now it should still be good,maybe up it to 30 concealment or whatever,either way tho i think drow who are from sl should get some kind of improved darkness,maybe make there's add 10 hide only or something.At the moment shadow legions population has very little drow race ,And seeing it is where drow are born there should be some incentive for drow to be there more then any other faction.

CrazyJ · Post by **CrazyJ** » Mon May 22, 2006 10:57 am

So I guess nobody really needs UV anymore for anything.

20% does seem a bit low.

Myrdyr · Post by **Myrdyr** » Mon May 22, 2006 10:57 am

What about making the drow ability improve with the character level? Maybe start with ~10% concealment and increase up to ~40%?

Falazure- · Post by **Falazure-** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:03 am

Well seeing Deep Gnome's now get 50 percent concealment,and they have the same sr as drow,but they get no blindess etc,seems a little unfair,specially seeing drow give 20 percent concealment to themselves and everyone else,doesnt make much sense if they are suppose to be so attuned to being in the dark,they should be highly trained not to have a 20 percent miss chance in darkness like other races.The old darkness diffinately needed a fix,it was way to bugged,but i think a little change would be nice.

CrazyJ · Post by **CrazyJ** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:08 am

Drow get SR... Smurfs don't.

Post by **Yonwe** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:12 am

Deep Gnomes are blinded as well... I don't believe Duergar are, them being the lone "underdark" race that isn't. Svirs, however, still suffer from pretty punishing negative ability modifiers that would make me want to play a Drow first if I were aiming to benefit from subrace-granted spell resistence, so I leave it to the few brave souls playing Gnomes in RK to prove me wrong!

algol333 · Post by **algol333** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:24 am

first off still fairly new here so take my comments with a grain of salt...
i have been working on a cleric rogue tiefling. i chose tiefling for the darkness of course and now i find out all this horrible news... i enjoy the check and balance system of this server but i just dont understand why anytime someone thinks a certain combo gets too powerful or overused it gets nerfed...20 % concealment is useless as far as im concerned.. it seems that in order to balance things certain toons are now useless... i understand that this is not an 'uber' server but if everything is nerfed to the point of nothingness then i suggest that we get rid of all magic, potions, armor, items and anything else that can give an edge to any toon... no more bonuses at all and just run around with sticks with -1 to hit and dmg that would be fair then... i guess my point is that there is a very fine line that is trying to be walked here and i think it has been crossed...
i guess i just dont understand why everything is nerfed.. arent toons supposed to be able to pwn the server i mean isnt that why we play?
not trying to be a jerk or nothing but it just seems that in my couple of months on this server everyweek there is a new nerf list coming out....
maybe NS4 should be moved from PW Action to PW roleplay or something..
also it seems like the purpose of Darkness at least for me was max sneak attacks...and i guess if that is too strong then isnt the Palemaster too strong being immune to everything or DD's with 1000 HP or Rdd's with 50 Str... every toon should have strengths and weakness...thats a system of balances not just nerf everything to the point of everything being weak...
just had to rant not excited my 20% concealment once per day...anyone got a scroll of II i can use?

Falazure- · Post by **Falazure-** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:37 am

Oh well never really tested deep gnomes myself,was just going by the race info on this site,saying duergars get the blindess hit,and it doesnt say deep gnomes do.Either way an aura that gives yourself and your enemy 20 concealment isnt much good.

$chase$ · Post by **$chase$** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:44 am

o no my lvl 6 drow cant kill everything on the server. boo hoo.
get over it. the days of putting up darkness and nothing attacking you are over move on

Death Dealer1 · Post by **Death Dealer1** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:54 am

i'm glad i don't play subraces. i still think the ECL's should count to buying higher lvl gear since your are supposed to be tougher and taking on higher lvl stuff.

maybe i'll start playing earth gensai...that sounds like and awesome update for ecl 2 though.

Knutsont · Post by **Knutsont** » Mon May 22, 2006 12:08 pm

One problem I see with adding a hide bonus to the darkness is the fact that the aura can still be seen by everyone. What good will a hidden character be if their aura is detectable with the naked eye? I would venture to say that absolutely no drow hiders use their darkness while hidden. Why? It completely defeats the effect. So, if a hide bonus is to be added, the visual effect of the aura must be removed (at least for everyone but the caster).

CrazyJ · Post by **CrazyJ** » Mon May 22, 2006 12:23 pm

When hiding you still can't be targeted unless "spotted," right? So it would help against archers & casters...and still gets a free sneak on meleers at least.

Maybe have Drow/Tief darkness at least give Sneak Attacks free?

Merrip · Post by **Merrip** » Mon May 22, 2006 12:32 pm

Knutsont wrote:One problem I see with adding a hide bonus to the darkness is the fact that the aura can still be seen by everyone. What good will a hidden character be if their aura is detectable with the naked eye? I would venture to say that absolutely no drow hiders use their darkness while hidden. Why? It completely defeats the effect. So, if a hide bonus is to be added, the visual effect of the aura must be removed (at least for everyone but the caster).

I agree using the darkness makes you plainly seen by everyone i think that there should be as Knutsont said a visual effect only for the caster.

As a mage I see the darkness cloud cast a fireball and the drow inside is buggered long enough to cast what ever i want

Post by **Yonwe** » Mon May 22, 2006 12:54 pm

The Darkness-Hide paradox you guys mention is actually only a problem if the AI computes the caster of the Darkness/Drow to be visible under normal hiding circumstances. For example, if you're running around normally with the old Drow Darkness cast on you, the game figures in the following order: 1-Player not in Stealth mode is visible; 2-Player is in radius of Darkness; 3-PC #2 is outside radius of Darkness without Ultravision, therefore players inside are not visible. If you're hidden from a player other than via Darkness, this happens: 1-Player in Stealth mod beats Spot/Listen checks and cannot be seen by other PC; 2-Effects centered on non-visible player are hidden via Stealth mode (Light from weapons/armor, AoE visuals such as Darkness, etc); 3-Player is not visible to outsider observers.

This is actually the source of the "bug" by which you would sometimes transition into a new area while Drow Darkness was on you and it seemed that the visual would vanish; if you were in Stealth mode, and you yourself didn't make you own Spot/Listen checks to beat your own Hide/MS, then the game hid the AoE from you as if you were an outsider player who didn't find you.

Marah Telexus · Post by **Marah Telexus** » Mon May 22, 2006 1:18 pm

I love how there is all this talk about how "overpowered" drow are. Seriously, I leveled a human cleric to lvl 35 in less than 2 weeks. I don't even play that much...well, compared to others. Currently, my lvl 34 drow is basically stuck at lvl 34 unless I want to spend 30+ hours straight to lvl. This is because my drow has 3 classes, so has a multi-class penalty on top of the ecl 3. A human does not ever take multi-class hits, has no ecl, and gets a +10% xp bonus at every level.

I could level my human cleric from lvl 35 to lvl 40 in the time it would take to lvl my drow from lvl 34 to lvl 35. Because of that, and of course being susceptible to fire spells, I agree with DD1, why play a subrace, human is where it is at.

It's obvious that some DM's are mad about some drow abusing the former darkness ability, but all high lvl drow do not use their darkness in planar areas. Using darkness in planar areas just begs to be dispelled by mobs. In any case, it doesnt matter, why play a drow when you can play an uber cleric

- Honestly, why is Auril still a DM? What a bung. -