Just PKs since that would be the "Grey" area of the pk system....
If u get killed by a monster then u were never attacked and u can relog till your little heart is content.
PK rules
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MasterYoda
- PKer
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- Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:14 pm
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Death Dealer1
- PKer
- Posts: 1263
- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:59 pm
- Location: the land of aaahhhhh's, where dorothy lives ;)
Let me clear something up about my previous post as it seems some confusion was created. I'll quote a private message I just wrote to someone else.
The res issue is sticky. It is legal but can bite you in the butt. The person logs in and res's you. The party then continues on with the character that did the res, and through some odd chance (I NEVER believe this is an accident regardless how many times it has been told to me) engages the PKer again. Folks this is cut and dried revenge logging.
I have busted a few of you for this, and suspect several others. Most of the time I try and warn you away from it before the act. It saves me having to write up and log a warning, and it saves the players involved from having that warning logged on them. It's not as uncommon as you might think that this issue comes up, but its one of the ones I watch for specifically.
If you play it right its legal. Res your party then relog your original character. If you know what way the PKer went, go the other way, so I dont have to start watching for harrasment. Best yet, respawn and pick a new direction and no one comes to grief. I'm sure where you can all see where this situation can get sticky watching from outside as a DM. If you dont give the DM a chance to "see it the wrong way around" then it wont get seen that way.
Relics are in addition to the game, not the purpose of it and in no way abrogate any of the other rules. You may log to defend your city and your relic IS inside your city.TGPO wrote:The relogging of another character to go back to the scene of a failed raid (relic or not) smacks to much of vengeance logging. As to relogging to res after a PK, this is a sticky one.
In reality you were just forcefully told to go somewhere else. A res at that position could very well and has lead to hunt. Especially when the person doing the res is of sufficient level to win round two ano does not log back with his original character.
The res issue is sticky. It is legal but can bite you in the butt. The person logs in and res's you. The party then continues on with the character that did the res, and through some odd chance (I NEVER believe this is an accident regardless how many times it has been told to me) engages the PKer again. Folks this is cut and dried revenge logging.
I have busted a few of you for this, and suspect several others. Most of the time I try and warn you away from it before the act. It saves me having to write up and log a warning, and it saves the players involved from having that warning logged on them. It's not as uncommon as you might think that this issue comes up, but its one of the ones I watch for specifically.
If you play it right its legal. Res your party then relog your original character. If you know what way the PKer went, go the other way, so I dont have to start watching for harrasment. Best yet, respawn and pick a new direction and no one comes to grief. I'm sure where you can all see where this situation can get sticky watching from outside as a DM. If you dont give the DM a chance to "see it the wrong way around" then it wont get seen that way.
*Computers are alot like air-conditioners. They work great until you open windows*
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MasterYoda
- PKer
- Posts: 1251
- Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:14 pm
I did recently log another toon after our party was attacked and the current toon I was playing was not killed and I was unable to raise them with the one I was playing. I did log another character to help raise and buff my party and help them get back together and while doing so I was attacked again and accused of revenge logging after I killed the pker for attacking me. It was unclear at the time if this action was allowed or not and an argument insued. This is why I brought the question here.
The other incident, in regards to raiding, included another player getting beaten while trying to raid the AO relic cradle. After being defeated twice he logged a different character to try a third time and was defeated yet again. I mentioned his logging another toon might be against the commandments and he took offence to this and said we didn't have to be there. Infact he was just coming after the relics so this wasn't a case of revenge logging.
Hopefully these disagreements can be resolved with a clear answer that is not subject to player interpretation.
The way I read the answers from TGPO mean that you are NOT allowed to log another character AT ALL if you are involved in a PvP conflict unless you do so to defend your faction's city. Exceptions to this might include logging another character to raise fallen comrades and NOT engaging the original PKer or remaining in the area to "aid" the pked characters.
Since in the previous example with the Shadowdancers it would be hard to determine winners or losers in a PvP battle if nobody actually dies then neither player could log another character to exact revenge on the other SD. Is this a correct interpretation of the rules or are their exceptions?
The question comes up if you are constantly getting PKed with a toon and you give up playing him and log another toon that isn't in the area so that you may go about your business somewhere else. Is this allowed or must we just leave the server and not play at all if an area is occupied by hostiles that we are unable to get around or defeat with the toon we are currently playing?
MLoki
The other incident, in regards to raiding, included another player getting beaten while trying to raid the AO relic cradle. After being defeated twice he logged a different character to try a third time and was defeated yet again. I mentioned his logging another toon might be against the commandments and he took offence to this and said we didn't have to be there. Infact he was just coming after the relics so this wasn't a case of revenge logging.
Hopefully these disagreements can be resolved with a clear answer that is not subject to player interpretation.
The way I read the answers from TGPO mean that you are NOT allowed to log another character AT ALL if you are involved in a PvP conflict unless you do so to defend your faction's city. Exceptions to this might include logging another character to raise fallen comrades and NOT engaging the original PKer or remaining in the area to "aid" the pked characters.
Since in the previous example with the Shadowdancers it would be hard to determine winners or losers in a PvP battle if nobody actually dies then neither player could log another character to exact revenge on the other SD. Is this a correct interpretation of the rules or are their exceptions?
The question comes up if you are constantly getting PKed with a toon and you give up playing him and log another toon that isn't in the area so that you may go about your business somewhere else. Is this allowed or must we just leave the server and not play at all if an area is occupied by hostiles that we are unable to get around or defeat with the toon we are currently playing?
MLoki
i don't see that relogging to teach someone a lesson after fighting to a standstill or a standoff is any different to relogging after explicitly losing. it's still for revenge.MLoki wrote:Since in the previous example with the Shadowdancers it would be hard to determine winners or losers in a PvP battle if nobody actually dies then neither player could log another character to exact revenge on the other SD. Is this a correct interpretation of the rules or are their exceptions?
one way of looking at it is that both of you are now curtailed as to where you can freely go, so you both lost and neither can relog.
in a similar vein i personally don't think that if you fight someone and beat them but they escape that gives you the right to relog 10 levels higher to find them and give them a good thrashing, but that's just me.
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Mr. O'Dearly
- Developer
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:28 am
one of my uncertainties about this is how long do you have to wait before relogging and risking meeting your pker again?
say for example youre leveling on the mountain, or better haddon mirk
and some random person lets call him ximork 
comes along and pks you. Now youre laying there depressed and respawn for the fifteenth time in the last hour. You are depressed this char is just really bad... so... you decided youre gonna cheer yourself up and relog with your high level cleric monk cheese and run around exacting your revenge on poor defenseless ogres. You take joy watching them explode on your crits or being sucked into nothingness by a an implosion.
Then, all of a sudden ximork happens along and hes killing your ogres! what do you do? Hes 5 levels lower than you, unbuffed, and howabout resting as well... Can you pk him?
This is all obviously all an exaggeration and none of the events depicted actually happened but the point is, how long do you have to wait before it is safe to pk the person again?
In the rules it says feel free to pk the person some other time. How long before you can safely say it was not a revenge pk.
say for example youre leveling on the mountain, or better haddon mirk
and some random person lets call him ximork comes along and pks you. Now youre laying there depressed and respawn for the fifteenth time in the last hour. You are depressed this char is just really bad... so... you decided youre gonna cheer yourself up and relog with your high level cleric monk cheese and run around exacting your revenge on poor defenseless ogres. You take joy watching them explode on your crits or being sucked into nothingness by a an implosion. Then, all of a sudden ximork happens along and hes killing your ogres! what do you do? Hes 5 levels lower than you, unbuffed, and howabout resting as well... Can you pk him?
This is all obviously all an exaggeration and none of the events depicted actually happened but the point is, how long do you have to wait before it is safe to pk the person again?
In the rules it says feel free to pk the person some other time. How long before you can safely say it was not a revenge pk.
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Mr. O'Dearly
- Developer
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:28 am
OK, its pretty simple here. While you certainly may care what the other memberes of the community have to say, it is only the DMs that have any say that truly matters. You can get PK'd and log out before the death screen finishes popping up and relog you level 40 kills everything character 3 seconds later.
All legal as long as you dont head off towards the area where your previous toon got killed. As I said if you dont give the DMs the chance to "See things the wrong way around" we wont. We can sit here and hammer this down to the point where it would take an english major to misunderstand it, but in the end it boils down to common sense. There are several players who will immediatly start popping off about your logging, so what. They are welcome to thier opinions, as long as you are operating in good faith leave those who think they can effectivly judge any situation to the DM team. We just LOVE those guys.
All legal as long as you dont head off towards the area where your previous toon got killed. As I said if you dont give the DMs the chance to "See things the wrong way around" we wont. We can sit here and hammer this down to the point where it would take an english major to misunderstand it, but in the end it boils down to common sense. There are several players who will immediatly start popping off about your logging, so what. They are welcome to thier opinions, as long as you are operating in good faith leave those who think they can effectivly judge any situation to the DM team. We just LOVE those guys.
*Computers are alot like air-conditioners. They work great until you open windows*
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Kromix
- Addict
- Posts: 1542
- Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 5:13 am
- Location: Right next to your mom... :D
- Contact:
o try to make it simple...
Rules outside your faction:
if bob and joe are running arround then timmy comes in and initiates combat with them and kills them, then bob and joe are stuck and cannot relog to either rez each other or revenge pk the pker.
if bob and joe are running arround then timmy comes in and initiates combat with them and they kill timmy, then timmy is stuck and cannot relog to revenge PK them.
if bob and joe are running arround then timmy and tony come in and theyinitiate combat with them and then 1 attacker die then the other attacker cannot relog to raise his fellow attacker.
if bob and joe are running arround then timmy and tony come in and theyinitiate combat but bob manages to run away, he cannot relog to raise his partner because he was involved in combat with an attacker.
if bob and joe are running arround then timmy and tony come in and theyinitiate combat with joe while bob was resting in a corner, bob is in a grey area allowed to relog and raise/back up joe in battle because he was never in combat/threat with the attackers... (this has to be obvious or else falls on the revenge log in)
now... for relog after pk rules
Timmy = PKer
Bob = PKee
if bob was killed by timmy, then bob can relog ANY toon he has and go play with it, but this new toon that bob relogged CANNOT INITIATE COMBAT with the PKer that just killed him... and he is in a danger zone if he brings his relloged char to the area where the PKer is... taunting and combative chat with a relloged char might be considered attemptive revenge by some DMs...
if timmy was killed by bob, then bob can relog any toon he wishes and play at his little heart's contemp, but timmy has to follow the latter rule posted...
if timmy attacks bob and fails to kill him, bob cannot relog in revenge status and the prevoiusly stated rules must be followed as if he was PKed in battle...
if timmy attacks bob, and then timmy retreats then both are considered PKees and rules apply to both as a PKee...
if timmy attacks bob, and bob HiPSes and satys HiPSed, then he is considered retreated/PKed by the rules then PKee rules apply...
PK rules are basically based on WHO INITIATES COMBAT and WHO RETREATS/DIES
Relogging involves the relog of a HIGHER or a LOWER level character.
if i have a lvl 30 ftr/bard/harperscout and gets PKed, a lvl 29 pure Mage will most likely get the revenge done. this is why the rellogging includes LOWER level chars that the PKd Char.
Area Rules:
if bob was walking in oger pass and gets PKed by Timmy, that's one PK count on bob by timmy
if bob RETURNS to oger pass and gets PK again by Timmy, it doesnt count agains timmy's 3 in 6 hours PK rule because the PKee came back to the area
if bob goes to dark forest and starts killing gobbies there, then timmy pops up and PKs bob again, then that a 2nd count on timmy's PK toward bob...
the area return "free" PK counts on the latest area bob was PKed by timmy.
a taunt does not count as initiation of combat
Inside faction:
if timmy pks Bob in dark forest, then timmy heads to NS and raids it, bob is entitled to relog for city defence IF and ONLY IF the toon that bob was playing was from NS, otherwise it can be counted as revenge relog.
if timmy was killed while raiding , he cannot relog higer or lower char to keep raiding...
DMs have the final say on this... i might have forgotten some stuff... but i'll add em if i remember
and no i'm not a lawyer...
Rules outside your faction:
if bob and joe are running arround then timmy comes in and initiates combat with them and kills them, then bob and joe are stuck and cannot relog to either rez each other or revenge pk the pker.
if bob and joe are running arround then timmy comes in and initiates combat with them and they kill timmy, then timmy is stuck and cannot relog to revenge PK them.
if bob and joe are running arround then timmy and tony come in and theyinitiate combat with them and then 1 attacker die then the other attacker cannot relog to raise his fellow attacker.
if bob and joe are running arround then timmy and tony come in and theyinitiate combat but bob manages to run away, he cannot relog to raise his partner because he was involved in combat with an attacker.
if bob and joe are running arround then timmy and tony come in and theyinitiate combat with joe while bob was resting in a corner, bob is in a grey area allowed to relog and raise/back up joe in battle because he was never in combat/threat with the attackers... (this has to be obvious or else falls on the revenge log in)
now... for relog after pk rules
Timmy = PKer
Bob = PKee
if bob was killed by timmy, then bob can relog ANY toon he has and go play with it, but this new toon that bob relogged CANNOT INITIATE COMBAT with the PKer that just killed him... and he is in a danger zone if he brings his relloged char to the area where the PKer is... taunting and combative chat with a relloged char might be considered attemptive revenge by some DMs...
if timmy was killed by bob, then bob can relog any toon he wishes and play at his little heart's contemp, but timmy has to follow the latter rule posted...
if timmy attacks bob and fails to kill him, bob cannot relog in revenge status and the prevoiusly stated rules must be followed as if he was PKed in battle...
if timmy attacks bob, and then timmy retreats then both are considered PKees and rules apply to both as a PKee...
if timmy attacks bob, and bob HiPSes and satys HiPSed, then he is considered retreated/PKed by the rules then PKee rules apply...
PK rules are basically based on WHO INITIATES COMBAT and WHO RETREATS/DIES
Relogging involves the relog of a HIGHER or a LOWER level character.
if i have a lvl 30 ftr/bard/harperscout and gets PKed, a lvl 29 pure Mage will most likely get the revenge done. this is why the rellogging includes LOWER level chars that the PKd Char.
Area Rules:
if bob was walking in oger pass and gets PKed by Timmy, that's one PK count on bob by timmy
if bob RETURNS to oger pass and gets PK again by Timmy, it doesnt count agains timmy's 3 in 6 hours PK rule because the PKee came back to the area
if bob goes to dark forest and starts killing gobbies there, then timmy pops up and PKs bob again, then that a 2nd count on timmy's PK toward bob...
the area return "free" PK counts on the latest area bob was PKed by timmy.
a taunt does not count as initiation of combat
Inside faction:
if timmy pks Bob in dark forest, then timmy heads to NS and raids it, bob is entitled to relog for city defence IF and ONLY IF the toon that bob was playing was from NS, otherwise it can be counted as revenge relog.
if timmy was killed while raiding , he cannot relog higer or lower char to keep raiding...
DMs have the final say on this... i might have forgotten some stuff... but i'll add em if i remember
and no i'm not a lawyer...
TGPO wrote: Call me a nazi all you want [...] it wont change the way I approach things.
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MasterYoda
- PKer
- Posts: 1251
- Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:14 pm
In dumb a.. terms ( this goes for me mostly cause i had to read it like 5 times to understand kromix ) if u get pked DONT RELOG A HIGHER CHAR AND ATTACK THE PKER....
period thats it if u do for any reason initiate pvp with a guy that just ( prob within the last 10 mins ) killed u DONT ATTACK HIM>
its really just commen sense which i dont even have so if i can see this and know what is and what is not allowed then u all should be able to as well ....
And in the event of him / her attacking u first .... Screen shots r ur friends ..... dont let them antagonze u or what not over shout.
period thats it if u do for any reason initiate pvp with a guy that just ( prob within the last 10 mins ) killed u DONT ATTACK HIM>
its really just commen sense which i dont even have so if i can see this and know what is and what is not allowed then u all should be able to as well ....
And in the event of him / her attacking u first .... Screen shots r ur friends ..... dont let them antagonze u or what not over shout.
TGPO wrote:Man, dont u hate it when yoda is right
Amoenotep wrote:yeah....he's a little right
