War Cry

[Tsavong]

I dont think bards need changeing they seem ok as they are they seem as good as other classes

[Amoenotep]

i think they seem better....some might say too good....i like the nerf suggestion.

[frogofpeace]

Redo song - any friendly in the area of effect becomes equipped with a +1 stick with bardsong; curse song would afford the converse (-1 stick) against enemies.

They don't need nerfing, they don't need fixing - they're fine.

[-BannyD-]

Redo song - any friendly in the area of effect becomes equipped with a +1 stick with bardsong; curse song would afford the converse (-1 stick) against enemies.

They don't need nerfing, they don't need fixing - they're fine.

considering bards create the most powerful builds on the server...i think not

how many other classes can easily have an effective 85+ac, 65+ab with amazing saves and spotting ability to boot on their own?

[frogofpeace]

What would you consider amazing saves? Seriously, I'm interested.

I guess I prefer the more recent tack of getting the other classes up to snuff, and bards are on the far end of that list. Bard is powerful (is your bard Jezebel? she scares me hehe), but not out of reach; there are other builds that can approach the numbers you're talking about, especially with a little help from their friends. I also find a (pure) bard hard to level, so the reward is justified by the effort.

[Tsavong]

I dont think there batter then all other classes my bard can get smashed up by a mage and the pure class cheese seems to make other classes as good if not batter than a pure bard.

Also bards cant spot they listen which should be beatable by casting silence or standing still. And to get highsaves i would think a bard would need to cross class with a CoT or a Blackgard to get there save boosting stuff and for the huge AC in the 80s wont it then need to have PM or RDD lvls (i guess devine sheald could help here too but its dodge and not perment)?

[-BannyD-]

you dont need PM or RDD to get low 80s AC...factor in curse song and you have mid to high 80s AC.

my bard/BG has close to 50base saves not counting spellcraft and his build is super outdated and he has lvl 30gear still...ive had regular bards at about 40base+ for their saves +spellcraft...thats pretty damn good. a pure bard gets higher or at least equal fortitude to that of a pure barbarian most of the time while not having a ridiculously low reflex.

i never leveled a pure bard but my good friend/guildmate (Jezebel) did and he said it was never difficult, was a smooth ride to the top and he could smack down just about any melee 1v1...but now that build is even outdated and it can be done better.

im just very scared to see bards buffed in any way (included pure bonuses that are rumored to be pretty wicked). they are already beastly pure, make amazing builds for use as primary class in a multiclass build (80+ AC/62+ AB dex or 70+AC 65+Ab str), and have general very good saves. their primary buff cannot be dispelled, their crazy debuff can be spammed, and they are simply amazing.

doesnt anyone else see that the majority of power lvl 40 builds are 30 Bard/X/X? im pretty sure its that way for a reason...

[Sparky]

Behind the scenes, I'm probably the Bard's strongest advocate, and everything BannyD says concerning the Bard's power level is true. They are too strong in too many roles without any real weakness. It's that simple.

Also, Bards won't be getting more bonuses any time soon.