Spellcasters are Gimped bigtime vs Other Classes

[AuTEC]

I think the point that Liquid was trying to make is that spellcasters are nerfed too much as it stands right now because anyone with a decent build that has kept saving throws in mind can beat a spellcaster.

I personally don't believe that any one class should be on top and be undefeatable. Each class should be weak against others. I think Liquid is trying to say that the classes spellcasters are supposed to be strong against are coming much closer into range and more often than not defeating spellcasters now.

Thus, spellcasters now are only strong against NPCs and NS3 builds and are being beaten by most good builds in NS4.

While I personally agree that spellcasters are holding the short stick right now, I support the Dev team in NS4, and as in all early stages of development the most obvious things will be fixed first and we'll have to wait for the nuances later on

-AuTEC

[DrakhanValane]

That AB bonus you get against knocked down opponents is due to the rule in D&D that you get a +4 to a prone opponent in Melee and a -4 in ranged combat. Check it out, you get the ranged penalty too when they're knocked down. :)

[Juicetin]

Wow, I didn't think there was anyone out there with the same view as me. I haven't played on neversummer since i found out haste was nerfed. Its ridiculous how they take away the core power of casters by nerfing haste. Think about it, casters get one spell per round while fighter types can get up to 4 or 6 with improved 2 weapon fighting of course, but anyways by the time the caster gets his spell off he gets hit 4-6 times and more times than none is interupted. Not to mention crits and knockdown, oh and dont forget the infamous heal potion chugging that goes on all the time.

Personally i think the best way to fix this ridiculous unbalance is to un-nerf the spell haste and a few other spells and add a rest restriction starting at 6-7 or so to balance out casters.

[Thanos]

Lokey,

You bring up an interesting question. Will all of the current characters be wiped after you've deemed the open beta over?

Arrian

Probably vault wipe at a to be determined milestone level. Abuse/bug fixing seems nearly endless, I don't think we've done much new content since mid-March...how about vault wipe: soon?

On latency: That's the million dollar question. I played without lag this weekend with 40 on one server and probably 130 players on the cluster. Bandwidth is unlimited, the only limit is 100 mbit/s on the router (and I don't think we're anywhere near to using that much). We're still trying to figure out what we can do to help with lag in general.

I was thinking the main problem is the server crashes. Seems when the servers get over 20 people on the the amount of crashes increases a few fold. When the servers hit 40 players it crashing like every 15 mins insteads every 3 hours when 15 people are on.

[DeputyDog]

I for one think casters can be beat just fine by melee.

Id like to see the elemental shield dmg increase some but leave the ability to only use one at a time.

I think dmg spells like fireball and everything should be increased slightly as well becuase there are a million ways to avoid them.

Spells such as isaacs need a little limiting becuase you cannot block magic dmg.

Low lvl spells like hold should have preset duration like 4-5 rounds + 1/5 levels or something.

--

I think we are getting close with spell casters. The onyl thing to realyl think about are instaant kill spells (Death) and weather we leave them alone or change them in some way.

I think the addition of death ward potions makable by clerics/druids will help tenfold, if they get into players hands. The whole idea behind potion/scroll creation is to create an economy.

--

Money and values of items will get tweaked, and more ways to spend that money will go in as we progress as well.

The next step is to add most of the gear that a given faction drops, into that factions stores for those members to purchase. This may curb the attack your own faction philosophy.

--

I think summons are actually great. I would like to add in a few more for the high lvl 6-9 summons but im not overly concerned with the strengths right now. And the short durations on Gate and Greater Planar make them quick dmg spells.

--

One class we may need to look at is Clerics. Full armor and a mile of buffs and they are quite a force. Most clerics right now can solo entire factions once they are buffed.

--

There are also plans for many jobs and abilites to go with those, and we will tailor jbos to each faction to make up for short comings.

[Thanos]

I for one think casters can be beat just fine by melee.

Id like to see the elemental shield dmg increase some but leave the ability to only use one at a time.

I think dmg spells like fireball and everything should be increased slightly as well becuase there are a million ways to avoid them.

Spells such as isaacs need a little limiting becuase you cannot block magic dmg.

Low lvl spells like hold should have preset duration like 4-5 rounds + 1/5 levels or something.




--

I think we are getting close with spell casters. The onyl thing to realyl think about are instaant kill spells (Death) and weather we leave them alone or change them in some way.

I think the addition of death ward potions makable by clerics/druids will help tenfold, if they get into players hands. The whole idea behind potion/scroll creation is to create an economy.

--

Money and values of items will get tweaked, and more ways to spend that money will go in as we progress as well.

The next step is to add most of the gear that a given faction drops, into that factions stores for those members to purchase. This may curb the attack your own faction philosophy.

--

I think summons are actually great. I would like to add in a few more for the high lvl 6-9 summons but im not overly concerned with the strengths right now. And the short durations on Gate and Greater Planar make them quick dmg spells.

--

One class we may need to look at is Clerics. Full armor and a mile of buffs and they are quite a force. Most clerics right now can solo entire factions once they are buffed.

--

There are also plans for many jobs and abilites to go with those, and we will tailor jbos to each faction to make up for short comings.

What about HIPS?

What about powergaming builds like 19 sorc/ 1 pally?

What about PRC summons?

How about see invis potions and true seeing potions. Currently you can't make those.

Can't you make IGMS sonic damage? not sure what they are now.

Have you updated the planar spell line? Last time I used them they summon very weak mobs. Gate is a good spell. Other ones summoned 60 hp succubus. Weaker than the normal summons line.

[Dallas17]

i really don't see mages as too weak, i think a few changes that would be very welcomed would be somthing like evasion not working in anything but light armour or robes as it should only work. that would make reflex spells actually useful. and definatly GMW and holy sword need to be nerfed.

i can still beat pretty much anyone though with a simple extended bigbies then i have my way with him for about 8 rounds it just takes tactics for mages to win a fight, can't just blast away at somone and hope to win. because once they're close.. it's dangerous. i myself plan to take a monk level once i get 21 for evasion and ofcourse dicipline, at which point i won't fear knockdown very much (+7 diciplien gloves, two +5 dicipline rings) = 24+17+2 = 43 dicipline.. not bad.


as for clerics, take away the extra attack on DP and just make it give fighter AB, not BAB, and then perhaps make it not stack with divine favor. and ofcourse GMW needs to be nerfed, perhaps duration on darkfire upped (however leave flame weapon alone, why? because it only benifits teamwork, there are no mages out there actually using this spell on themselves) and maybe a few more nerfs on clerics like magical vestiment only being 1/5 levels.. perhaps that same formula for GMW, capping at +4 for both (level 20).

then make spells like firestorm full PvP, perhaps flamestrike too, storm of vengence too. mages have to be cautious wiht thier area of effect spell, why not the cleric?

[RunarSterk]

RunarSterk:
What I usually do is knockdown, hit, then knockdown again, and repeat. Granted, you won't always land the KD, but it's very effective against casters. They can't get any spells off when they're laying on their backs being beaten. In PvP, it also keeps them from running away

My attack must be too weak. I can rarely pull off two knockdowns in a fight, let alone in a row. Could be I'm going after stuff that's too powerful, though.

Here's a suggestion if people think the knockdown is too poweful a weapon: give it a 75% or so damage reduction. Right now a knockdown is made at -4 to hit, but does regular damage if you connect (I think). If it's possible, you could tweak that so it doesn't do regular damage. Then the knockdown spamming would be abated a bit, probably. Unless group tactics were used, but then, group tactics seems to be the name of the game.

[Knightwing4]

Change is good, Change is needed, but realize that purposeless change is bad, go look at BoW for example, mages are NOTHING but disable machines, why? because in the epic lvls, unlike fighters, they get close to no improvements to their spellbooks (A lvl 20 mage casting emp delayed blast fireball is the EXACT SAME as one casting at lvl 40).

My message: Take a moment, sit back, and think about how to make the game FUN, the objective of this game is fun, exploring, feeling superior, etc. are all sources of fun, so sit back, will what you implement help the game, or will it hurt it? Ahh... to be a dev

[Dallas17]

bastions mages are not disable mages.. why? because melee's resist all thier disable spells, mages there use shields, mord to strip peoples buffs, and issacs and horrids to damage opponents. and now that evasion doesn't work in anything but light and medium armour reflex spells ARE useful there. i would much prefer the balance of BoW to NS's mages...

[Lothy]

casters are okay, they are useless until lvl 30, but after that they become owning.

if you wanna build a good caster, try combining different classes. going pure 40 lvls of wizard sucks! no discipline, no tumble, no armor proficiencies!

my sorcerer38 / pally1 / rogue1 will most likely kill any fighter in any duel.

when will roleplayers quit whining about geting killed? who cares if you are pure lvl 40 caster or (unpure) 38/1/1 caster? if you refuse to utilize multiclassing then its your own fault! so dont cry me a river. play the game as it is INTENDED TO BE PLAYED, use all resources available to you, CHARACTER PERFECTION is the goal.

[Bob]

On hit Level Drain Again, what was it on? Didn't know that property was on any game item, NPCs included.

[edit - NM... thought it was on a particular weapon, but isn't.]

[JesterOI]

Spells such as isaacs need a little limiting becuase you cannot block magic dmg.

Say what? Those don't work on Isaac's?

Hell, using a resist 5/- on Isaac's would kill that spell soooooo bad.

[Bob]

Spells such as isaacs need a little limiting becuase you cannot block magic dmg.

Just a small point about the Isaac's... didn't someone say they'd been added to the resist list on Shield?

[DrakhanValane]

Not in a SoU mod, Jester.