Should I Spot Or Not?

[disastro]

ok I'm not very familiar with whats out there and what works, but here's my spot math breakdown.
I'll assume both sides have access to a bard, have about +15 from their appropriate stat, have multiclassed for 5 levels
(typical 35somethings/5sd and cleric35/5<insert class that gives spot>), and have the "right" gear.


hider with spell access
base 43
boots 8
cloak 7
rings 14
armor 7
bard song 14
one w. land 4
mass camo 10
camo 10 (do these stack?)
skill focus 10
dex 15
-----------------
142
cost = 1 maxed skill, (5 umd) and 1 feat


"best" spotter (elf, wis based, 3 div feats, multiclassed, epic skill spot)
base 43
skill focus 10
clairv 20
helm 10
true seeing 30
bard song 14
wis 15
elf 2
------------------
144
cost = 1 maxed skill and 4 feats, multiclassed elf caster cleric. this nets uberspotter about 50% chance.

a "regular" spotter with without 3 div feats maxes at 124. if they're not wisdom based, about 115

gear advantage breakdown:
hider: +37
spotter: +10 (helm.. are there any +spot rings?)

anything obviously wrong with these numbers?

[-BannyD-]

A wild elf zen archer with knowledge domain, epic spell focus divination, and epic skill focus spot, can spot any player on the server... even if they have two epic rings of shadows.

but will ultimately suck in terms of damage.

[Sparky]

A little help to revise your math Disastro.

There's a +50 skill bonus cap from items and spells that specifically grant + skills.

Ex: 43 Ranks from level + 10 from Epic skill focus + 3 Regular skill focus + Appropriate Mental/Physical Stat + 50 max skill enhancement bonus.

Also, the max skill level that is hardcoded into the game is 127. Now, with skill checks, a roll greater than 127 is possible, but the highest a base skill can be is 127, also taking into account the +50 skill enhancement bonus limitation.

Edit: Camo/Mass Camo don't stack.

[disastro]

..., the max skill level that is hardcoded into the game is 127. Now, with skill checks, a roll greater than 127 is possible, but the highest a base skill can be is 127, also taking into account the +50 skill enhancement bonus limitation.

that DOES help a great deal, thanks! back to the build spreadsheet lol

[Aarkon Draco]

thx for that info sparky i has suspected that was the case thx for confirming it this will free up some equipment slots for a certian cleric spotter im working on as the spells alone hit the +50 cap

as for bannys comment on the low damage for the most part yes they will do lesser damage however how manny SD builds have oodles of HP? and if you take divine might that will add 10 or 20 divine damage per hit depending on the build and add that to most archers having 5 6 or 7 attacks per round it adds up quick.

[LinuxPup]

Zen archers can get decent damage.... aura gives +8, and divine favor gives +5 too I think? Assume at least 4-6 damage for strength... there's some nasty arrows out there... and x3 multiplier is nice.... of course you could also make a zen slinger with a tower shield... don't see many of those.

[Tsavong]

you could use a feat and take devine might and add your charisma to damage

[disastro]

you could use a feat and take devine might and add your charisma to damage

fyi divine might doesnt work on ranged attacks last i checked (this is a zen archer we're talking about). i know of one tower slinger zenner. he gets WAY more mileage out of implode.

zen sling damage is kinda sub par for pvm, but it should be decent for pvp where your targets have much less hp than the average dorf. (sling gets much more mileage for a sneak attacker).

[Sparky]

Divine Might applies to all attacks made by a character. A long time ago when we had the 25 level cap I made a Charisma based Paladin/Sorc/AA and loved it. The Guy hit like a tank between all the Divine and Magivc damage he was putting out on his bow.

The tough part there is a ranged build that has Divine Might requires 13 STR, Power Attack, and some class capable of turning undead (For using Divine Might), which can require rangling feats and stats around depending on what you're willing to sacrifice.

[disastro]

i guess i was mistaken then.. i'm pretty sure i read that div might for ranged attacks was a new feature for nwn2.

[Amoenotep]

i made a zen archer slinger with a tower shield...she is a pure druid with dragon shape also. fun to play but ultimately just for looks.

as far as vs hipsters goes..i have a wiz/bard that spots all poorly built sd's, most decent built sd's, and no awesome sd's. however, she does make all of them rethink the in close strategy when they attack. its all about using your chars potential instead of what you see others doing.

[Celorn]

I tend to build some SD busting into all my PvP-oriented toons... (as many of you enemy to LA SDs and DMs that have fought me may know) - some can 100% self-buff to near the cap, others need scrolls (or a friendly bard boost if available) to achieve 110+ levels...

The problem is sometimes you nerf the build a bit... just have to find the right balance, ie: just in case on my newest WM build, I took ESF:Spot on lvl39 just in case changes come in, I can delevel and take a more useful feat.

So from my PoV, it seems to be just fine as-is...

[disastro]

i made a zen archer slinger with a tower shield...she is a pure druid with dragon shape also. fun to play but ultimately just for looks.

as far as vs hipsters goes..i have a wiz/bard that spots all poorly built sd's, most decent built sd's, and no awesome sd's. .

thanks, this is the kind of information im looking for. that experience matches my number crunching so i know im not messing something up entirely.

by my calculations 110ish real spot will have a 8% chance to spot most hide builds @ level 40.

depending on what you intend to counter with this drops to a 1% chance since you may need to spot on consecutive rounds in order to do anything (i learned that the hard way... you have to spot this round, when you select your action (attack/cast etc) it will be executed NEXT round.. when it may not have a target since you failed your spot.)

against the very high end builds this all starts at 1% chance, dropping to near zero for consecutive round spot.

however it should give you that chance to avoid getting sneak attacked each round (this i have to test however).

so this leaves spot useful against your lower level SDs (~30% chance vs a level 30ish sd), if only for partial sneak protection.

excel ftw! its better than actually doing work!