I'd like to see = potential spot/listen to hide/ms bonuses from items. I dont really care what they are, I just think that it should be possible to have a 50/50 chance when all other factors are equal. I dont think a toon should have to nerf itself with 3 spell focuses either, and if they do- i think that they should have no sweat with detection for such dedication.
I think gear, an epic skill focus, clairvoyance/audiance, and either TS or Amplify should give a person a 50/50 chance vs somone who has:
gear, epic skill focus, camoflauge/mass camoflauge, other hide/ms spells.
I also think that if there is a subrace that gets a hide/ms bonus there should also be one that is balanced to give a spot/listen bonus (that is avalable to all factions)
Who is with me?
Balance gear out
Balance gear out
Nerezzo [IO] Snake [IO] Nero Moretti [IO] Robocop [IO] Augeraid [IO] Dr. Cronic [IO]
the issue is about "one type of toon that cant detect," it's about providing a 50/50 shot for detect given equal dedication and items.
so if a properly built sd gets all the sneak toys/skills/spells, and a well built spotter gets all the detect toys/skills/spells, there ought to be a 50% shot either way. thus coming down to player skill.
as far as i can tell there are more +sneak item slots (2 rings, cloaks, armor) than there are +detect (helms? dunno of anything else). there are several ways to build a hider that requires every spot trick + 3 divination feats just to get a 50/50 shot (NOT including ghostwise which is in its own category.)
listen is more balanced itemwise if you accept bard to be the only counter (builds without access to amplify + clair + bard song have zero listen chance).
so if a properly built sd gets all the sneak toys/skills/spells, and a well built spotter gets all the detect toys/skills/spells, there ought to be a 50% shot either way. thus coming down to player skill.
as far as i can tell there are more +sneak item slots (2 rings, cloaks, armor) than there are +detect (helms? dunno of anything else). there are several ways to build a hider that requires every spot trick + 3 divination feats just to get a 50/50 shot (NOT including ghostwise which is in its own category.)
listen is more balanced itemwise if you accept bard to be the only counter (builds without access to amplify + clair + bard song have zero listen chance).
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Blystos Re
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epic skill focus, skill focus, true seeing, c/c, spot helm = 70/30 chance of me seeing a hipser...add bard song and its 99%
its much much much easier to get a high spot/listen than a high hide/ms. do you not realize true seeing adds a +20? nothing gives a +20 to hide, the SDs get little increments that add up, the spotters get few but big ones...
if anything, id like to see more items with move silently on them as currently there is an imbalance between +hide and +ms yet its equally easy to get a high spot or listen
its much much much easier to get a high spot/listen than a high hide/ms. do you not realize true seeing adds a +20? nothing gives a +20 to hide, the SDs get little increments that add up, the spotters get few but big ones...
if anything, id like to see more items with move silently on them as currently there is an imbalance between +hide and +ms yet its equally easy to get a high spot or listen
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Psycho Banny and all his forms
Psycho Banny and all his forms
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Aarkon Draco
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is every SD a ghostwise halfling? no...if your beef is with that token then specify so.Aarkon Draco wrote:ghostwise token gives +30 to hide tyvm
and hey...you ever realize that Aasimar gets, basically, +40 to spot?...hmm
+30 vs +40....the spotters have it easier
-Slave- [GM]
Psycho Banny and all his forms
Psycho Banny and all his forms
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Aarkon Draco
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well using your argument .. is every spotter a aasimar? lol
my main gripe isnt that SD are a pain to battle or that they spam the hips or that it kills a action cue its the fact it often seems 80% of the raiders PvPers are some form of SD i give mad props to thoes who dont use them for every build
i have no problems making a anti SD toon ( curently i have a coupple in the works to see what suits me best ) but i also dont want to have to have every toon i make to be some sort of anti SD build my pure paladin is awesome i like him alot but hes almost useless vs raiders and about half of any PvP engagements beccause he cant spot ( a common theme on most melee builds due to low skill points )
im not asking for SD nerf or that people stop using them ill adapt all im saying is that its rather sad that SD are so abused .. maybe abused isnt the right word its just disappointing that with all the variety of builds possible that most carbon copy the same one over and over and over
my main gripe isnt that SD are a pain to battle or that they spam the hips or that it kills a action cue its the fact it often seems 80% of the raiders PvPers are some form of SD i give mad props to thoes who dont use them for every build
i have no problems making a anti SD toon ( curently i have a coupple in the works to see what suits me best ) but i also dont want to have to have every toon i make to be some sort of anti SD build my pure paladin is awesome i like him alot but hes almost useless vs raiders and about half of any PvP engagements beccause he cant spot ( a common theme on most melee builds due to low skill points )
im not asking for SD nerf or that people stop using them ill adapt all im saying is that its rather sad that SD are so abused .. maybe abused isnt the right word its just disappointing that with all the variety of builds possible that most carbon copy the same one over and over and over
Balion, Blade of Torm
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I agree alot of people now a days are SD but i dont agree with Oni just because ur build suxs agiant SDs doesnt mean u cant fight them and there is gear that has hide/ms and spot/lision to all factions and that 50/50 chance stuff i think is BS just make a bard or somthing. Personaly i dont like SDs but i dont hate them from personal experinces tryin to fight them with a pure fighter
Thunderclap and Earthquake would both be a pretty good addition, though since both a reflex based (the knockdowns at least), the offending party would probably make the save. But hey, it's a step in a good direction.
For that matter, spells that trip or hold in place could be good for pulling people out of stealth.
Bigsby's could at least grant stealth penaltys, since a big hand is pretty easy to see.
A Web or Grease Failure could reasonably pull someout out of Steatlh, as would a failed Evard's Black Tentacle's saves. Bloody Roar wouldn't be so bad either.
We have options, and they are worth exploring without actually nerfing said abilities.
For that matter, spells that trip or hold in place could be good for pulling people out of stealth.
Bigsby's could at least grant stealth penaltys, since a big hand is pretty easy to see.
A Web or Grease Failure could reasonably pull someout out of Steatlh, as would a failed Evard's Black Tentacle's saves. Bloody Roar wouldn't be so bad either.
We have options, and they are worth exploring without actually nerfing said abilities.
Serving NS4 proper as Lathander and Sleeth as Bahamut.
Yes, I'm a DM, but your build still sucks.
Yes, I'm a DM, but your build still sucks.