Return of the "I Win Button"

[Lorkar1]

Honestly, I don't see it as an "I win" button. You get one attack per rumble. Now you say, well the fighter knocks me down and his party kills me...I say where's your back-up?
You cant compare the bigbies to the rumble or even to the timestop due to the amount of damage that can be inflicted post action, I say this in the 1 on 1 PvP.
Now if Dev Crit was enabled then yes its an "I win" button. Or maybe if the fighters had a weapon master like crit ability I could see it. But they don't.
A pure fighter is gonna get what? An ab of 60 on the top end and thats if they forego DR. A str based fighter will have what? An ac of 62-64 tricked out in uber gear with no IE?
I dont mention Dex fighters because I haven't built one to 40.
Hell, my bard/pm isn't even 40 or with all the pretty, shiny gear and he has an unbuffed ac of 63. The downside of that is that he has a mediocre ab.
OooOOOo a bard/PM...well thats a sore subject for another thread or dozen. My whole point is each class has something they excel at, and they lose elsewhere.
Except maybe the Dragonshape.

[LinuxPup]

I've found dragonshaped players to be some of the easier ones to kill... as long as you have a +6 weapon.

[-BannyD-]

in general, i agree that now the fighter token isnt an "I Win Button"

before the change to a 1/4min usage, it most definately was. no one can do anything if they are on the ground the entire time and i was one of the people that would flee from any lvl 34 pure fighter...now, id rather try and get that fighter to waste his KD at the start of a battle than to let him use it more strategically later on..

what im gonna be afraid maybe is the new "You Dont Win" button that pure paladins give when resurrecting their entire team again ...however that will only work in tight battles where the "winners" were very very fatigued by the time everyones res'd...others its easy pickings again

[de_slider]

The Rumble was most definitely not an "I win" button. Even before the change and when it could be spammed.

SD's for the most part own fighters, archers at range get their fair share of fighter butt, a skilled monk who can draw out the token KD would set the fighter for that Stunning Fist then BANG the fighter is left there rocking back and forth praying that no one comes by to pk them while they are 100% defenseless. Barbarians manage to take fighters on vacation 50% of the time as do Bard/fighter combos. The list goes on.

However, if you'er a lvl 34 -36 without PM, SD or Bard in your build and you run up to a level 40 fighter who is armored and weaponed up to the nines, what would you expect? You start to melee with him/her, token or no token once that fighter's weapon starts to strike, your pretty much assured that the weapon is the "I win" implement and not the token. The token, when used in this situation, is almost like saying "Don't waist my time, you ain't going to beat me".

And please don't forget, a fighter regardless of the build generally has Knockdown and Improved Knockdown as well and are being lazy by using the token. Have you ever get hit by a Bard/Fighter/Weapons Master? That build can do some real "hurt me". To top it off, I have seen a pure Barbarian buffed, hit with a critical of 450 points. Unfortunately the one getting hit only had 426 hp. Now that's an "I win".

It's not the token my friend. It's the build behind that token. If the fighter using that token doesn't have enough AB to beat then AC of the one laying flat on it's back guess who will win?

Pick a token any token, class or race. If the PC has not worked out the class(es), stats, skills, feats, armor, weaponry, etc.. to back that ability, then the ability is rendered pointless even though the effect has taken place.

It's not the token that makes the build, but the build that makes the token.

[-BannyD-]

And please don't forget, a fighter regardless of the build generally has Knockdown and Improved Knockdown as well and are being lazy by using the token. Have you ever get hit by a Bard/Fighter/Weapons Master? That build can do some real "hurt me". To top it off, I have seen a pure Barbarian buffed, hit with a critical of 450 points. Unfortunately the one getting hit only had 426 hp. Now that's an "I win".

ahahaha, thats funny..."I win" hehe
gotta love/hate scythes

[minielvis]

The kd token was changed to once every 4 minutes real time?
If that is correct, imo, problem solved.

I do like the idea of pure fighters having a chance to disrupt hips, though.
That's a cool idea.

Gorn wants a nerf on monks, because they are way overbalanced?

Let me pose a question: How many lvl 40 pure monks have you seen that were built by players? One. Why, you ask? Hard to level to 40 and huge weaknesses due to no cheese. Every one who builds a high level monk seems to eventually give in and take cheese. I've seen monk toons build to their 30's pure, then take another class. 60 DC on stun fist? Wow, sounds good. You better have sd levels, so that you can hit something with it though.

Sorry for rambling. *exits stage left*

[number one bastard]

im thinkin there is no such thing as "balance, some changes are good, some ..... but regaurdless, there should be discernment between a cry baby cryin and the eral deal, which i don't see happening in some cases.As far as MA goes, it's NERFED while monks run around ( uncatchable) assasins death attack the poo out of ya, RDD's are rather powerful, pallies totaly unbuff ya, druids just set the bugs on ya, on and on and on , but MA really don't have many classes to build with, yet they have been "rectified" supremely ....

[number one bastard]

dont get me wrong, all in all the DEV's are makin the server more fun, but YES i was complaining a tad about MA gettin the perverbial shaft, ty DEV's for the recent changes

[LinuxPup]

MA still has by FAR the best prestige class though... a bard/pm is insane.... I know from a lot of experience. Brilhasti ap Tarj was made before IO and MD, and he's still a decent build. High AC, ab, sneak immunity, stun immunity (one of the only ways to get stun immunity btw), paralysis immunity, crit immunity, etc, etc. It should be noted that other persistent worlds nerf pale masters for the same reason.

Pure paladins just help level the playfield. However, being a former MA player, I can sympothize with MA and NC with their class selection.... but you do have allies...

[Aarkon Draco]

i got to agree with linux here the PM is still the top dog of PRCs crit/sneak immune basically makes you invulnerable to WM and SD builds not to mention the ridiculesly high AC a PM can achieve. ( 84 ac isnt it JP? ) not picking on you but you know the build/builds im refering to. 84 is just crazy hard for any melee toon to hit.

[number one bastard]

i got to agree with linux here the PM is still the top dog of PRCs crit/sneak immune basically makes you invulnerable to WM and SD builds not to mention the ridiculesly high AC a PM can achieve. ( 84 ac isnt it JP? ) not picking on you but you know the build/builds im refering to. 84 is just crazy hard for any melee toon to hit.

where do you get that? try 74

[Sparky]

Well, I have a non PM Bard that can hit 78 AC, so if I threw PM in, that's an easy 6-8 AC right there. That sounds like 84 easy peasy.

[Amoenotep]

i have a str build PM that reaches 75 with massive physical resists...i can see how he's nerfed to the hilt.

[Nefarious]

I have a str build PM w/ a lil beasty that comes w/ it and my ac almost reaches 80.

[mgrjebbo]

*my post has nothing constructive to add to this thread*


Figured i would save someone the time of editing....