Why do archers suck mommy?

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Sun May 09, 2004 8:17 pm

also takes an extra feat to get them.

Æ · Post by Æ » Sun May 09, 2004 8:22 pm

Maces aren't a finesse weapon, light hammers are though... doesn't seem any lighter than a mace if you ask me, but that's how they made it }: P

Ximn · Post by **Ximn** » Sun May 09, 2004 8:48 pm

Can I break off the tips of my arrows and have them do bludgeoning damage ???

I mean my monk gloves do pierce damage at lvl 9 and slash at lvl 13

DrakhanValane · Post by **DrakhanValane** » Sun May 09, 2004 8:53 pm

Maces are finesse weapons.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Sun May 09, 2004 8:56 pm

Thought so, mace weapon size is small. They are pretty much the same thing as a club, but clubs are medium sized weapons.

DrakhanValane · Post by **DrakhanValane** » Sun May 09, 2004 9:03 pm

While we're at it, so are fists (blunt, finesse). :) Just don't forget the Improved Unarmed Strike feat.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Sun May 09, 2004 9:08 pm

I always use finesse with my monks, getting ac and ab at the same time is great. Though wisdom needs to be raised to 21 now, to get your fists equal to +5's.

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Sun May 09, 2004 10:32 pm

And this isn't the point....archers use bows....and if you want me to shoot it in melee range, fine I have point blank shot because I don't like using melee weapons....im an archer.

Still the arrows deal less damage than melee weapons of the same type. When I do hit an ogre with my +1d8 longsowrd i deal about 12-14 damage.....my bow does an average 7 damage against ogres

And alos longbows only do 1d6 inherent damage (meaning they don't get as much base damage as a longsword) and still Archers don't have a wide variety to choose from, rangers, AA, they deserve to have some better class arrows because they are ONLY using the bow. Every other class has a variable amount of weapons to use. An AA doesn't get any special achievement by using a sword. So forcing chars to switch to an itemt hey aren't supposed to use, doesn't make any sense. Let the AA's use their bows and make the arrows deal some better damage. Im only talking two or three points of extra damage. Thats all

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Sun May 09, 2004 10:53 pm

Base damage on a long sword is equal to a longbow, 1d8.
The only extra damage you get from the sword would be from str.

Your arrows probably do less to ogres than your sword because the ogres have 5/- resist vs peircing weapons, which bows use arrows cause peircing damage.

An avg of 12 from a longsword and an ag of 7 from a bow would be explained by the resistance to peircing.

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Sun May 09, 2004 10:57 pm

Hmm.... thats still harsh...AA's lose all their bonuses when they hit with a melee weapon.

Heres an idea.

Make AA and Ranger only arrows ( and if you can, im not sure if you can, but if you can make it so that the arrows require the feat Weapon Focus Longbow (or shortbow))

This way the arrows are designed specifically for the archer classes. Make the arrows cost more but deal 2-3 more damage than normal.

Archers shoudn't be penalized for being archers, it's just that simple. I'm sure every bow ranger and AA would be more than happy to pay an extra 3k per quiver of arrows if they got better arrows.

Seems reasonable to me

and with the restrictions it makes the items exclusive to classes that ONLY use bows.

As it is now bows are pretty discouraging :

DrakhanValane · Post by **DrakhanValane** » Sun May 09, 2004 10:58 pm

Shortbow is 1d6, Longbow is 1d8.

In choosing to be an archer you've chosen to limit yourself to a single damage type. If you want to shoot from afar you can't exactly bludgeon someone's head in. Round off the tip of your arrow and you'll just do less piercing damage not change the type to blunt.

Arcane archers are the WM of missile weapons. WM are stuck with one type of weapon too. :P

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Sun May 09, 2004 11:01 pm

I think I hear a whisper of wanting a do-it-all weapon...
Kinda like AE with his rapier or whoever that was.
If they have resist vs your chosen damage type that sucks yeh.
Maybe go find different enemies to hunt then, or bring a friend.
I heard the higher level crafted arrows have elemental damage on them, that should help when you level up more.

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Sun May 09, 2004 11:03 pm

If i could buy arrows that were rounded at the edge...i'd pay 5k per quiver (thats 3k more than a regular stack of lvl 9 arrows) But then again....archers are limited in their choices....

If you want I could show you a bunch of pictures of what different kinds of arrows there are in DnD and in real life. They aren't all piercing. Some are weighted shafts, others have blunted ends (like you suggested DV

) and others don't even do damage.

Other arrows have explosives attached to them so that when they hit, the ignite everything on fire. Its really easy to make...just look at army of darkness

Still, the arrow selectability is low for archers.....Choosing to PrC shouldn't mean that I suddenly have NO options when it comes to combat. There should be no point where archers are forced to move to melee weapons because the ranged weapons are no good. Doing such things effectively makes archers pointless...which again is uncool

You don't want to be uncool do you? well....do you?

Edit:

And if your right jester thats cool. Its just really hard to lvl an arhcer because lots of monsters at higher levels have pierce resist....especially ogres....but I am going to try moving into NC to kill me some amazons

that should change things up a bit. Still though archers shouldn't be forced to use melee weapons in order to fight.

And personally I want a do it all bow that deals 20d6 damage....but I also want a million dollars. Neither of which I can get so im fine with just arrows that deal 2-3 extra damage.

Still what you guys think about the suggestions i made? Increasing arrow prices for better arrows at the same ILR, and also making class specific limitations to ensure only AA and bow rangers can use? Doesn't that levle things out a bit?

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Sun May 09, 2004 11:09 pm

Army of Darkness kicked [censored]!
"This is myy BOOMSTICK!!!"

Even if you add 1d4 of slashing instead of 1d4 of peircing to the arrow, your still gonna take a 5/- hit on damage from those ogres because the arrows base damage is peircing type.

Look on the bright side though, as an arcane archer you will eventually be able to skip ALL damage absorption unless the devs use higher than +5/x absorb or they nerf AA's so they don't get the +15 enhanced arrows (+15!!! That's insane!!!).

DrakhanValane · Post by **DrakhanValane** » Sun May 09, 2004 11:09 pm

Uh, I'm arguing against you, ATI. :) I'm saying the very nature of the weapon limits it to piercing only. It is very difficult to make an arrow do anything but piercing damage (even bullets are piercing damage).

Your arguments are coming across to me as a sorc who thinks they should be buffed since Monks are too hard to kill.