SEE? Here's another one! There are alot of fair minded people who play caster classes and still want the summons nerfed, because they don't want it to be easy... it's no fun that way.
Although, let's not forget, summons are a big thing the dev's are working on right now, so give them a chance to finish and let's see what they come up with }: )
Summons
some guidelines on acceptable summons:
if the mage can't kill it, the summon shouldn't be able to either
if the mage were to fight the summon, the summon should lose
if the summon can't be killed by things of the mage's CR, it is too strong
if the summon can't stand up to things of the mage's CR for at least a few rounds its too weak unless it has some other special ability that makes up for it
if the summon is higher level than the mage, its too strong
if the mage can't kill it, the summon shouldn't be able to either
if the mage were to fight the summon, the summon should lose
if the summon can't be killed by things of the mage's CR, it is too strong
if the summon can't stand up to things of the mage's CR for at least a few rounds its too weak unless it has some other special ability that makes up for it
if the summon is higher level than the mage, its too strong
O heat, dry up my brains! Tears seven times salt
Burn out the sense and virtue of mine eyes!
Burn out the sense and virtue of mine eyes!
personaly.. i dont think yall get how strong the players and monsters will be when ns4 goes epic..
A dragon summon looks like a goblin snot flinger compared to a level 30+ tank, I think that if anything, you should make the summons CR based to count up for the super strongness, so a level x summon at 20 is only a elder elemental but at 40 it would be a dragon... that would be nice to see, i mean im a level 16 fighter and i can plow threw half celestials like a knife threw butter
i love the idea of having A SUMMONER type caster, one that relys alot on summons, they exist as types of mages in other games and their quite fun to play... either way, thats my .02
A dragon summon looks like a goblin snot flinger compared to a level 30+ tank, I think that if anything, you should make the summons CR based to count up for the super strongness, so a level x summon at 20 is only a elder elemental but at 40 it would be a dragon... that would be nice to see, i mean im a level 16 fighter and i can plow threw half celestials like a knife threw butter
i love the idea of having A SUMMONER type caster, one that relys alot on summons, they exist as types of mages in other games and their quite fun to play... either way, thats my .02
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EvilIguana966
- Noob
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- Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 2:43 pm
Well druids are a class that relies largely on their summons, both their companion and their spells. I don't think removing the summons is a good idea, but making them all decent tanks and decent melee damage dealers would work well. They shouldn't be able to go toe to toe with hordes of mobs higher than the summoner without some reinforcement though. the point of summons IMO is to hold off the mob or mobs and act as a damage-over-time spell while the caster nukes or debuffs the monsters. Look at EverQuest. The magician class has decent nukes and a good pet, neither is great alone, but put them together and you have one of the best damage producing classes out there.
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QuickLightning
- Pk Bait
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:57 pm
I would be forced to agree =/...my cleric (Syllia Lightning) went down to the underdark about a week ago and fought 3 drow my level at the same time. Myself and a simple lantern archon (all 4 of us are level 6, 3v1...you'd think i'd lose?) the archon used Call Lightning and slain the DROW Sylia in a single cast (=/) then I just tanked for him while he used chainlightning and something else and the other 2 were killed. I won a 3v1 even level fight that easily because of summons =/?
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Terminal Insanity
- Newbie Helper
- Posts: 348
- Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 1:24 pm
- Location: I am Jacks hate.
A round/level would not be a great thing, because low level mages seriously need something to help them out in killing those bloody rats, singe mages are stuck to killing rats when other classes are buisy in wyrmwood/foothills
All im saying is this one summon, Sumon Creature V, is useless! It shouldent be more powerfull then me, of course, but, it should be able to do SOMETHING other then cast color spray... I've used this summon and it does dito. It cant last in wyrmwood even. this is a level 5 summon
Give it more dex and make its spells DC a bit higher so it can have some effect, but preferably, make it a tank summon instead. thats what mages need. Tanks. Something to hold off the enemy while we inflict damage. All this thing does is make them laugh at the purdy colors and then splash some blood
All im saying is this one summon, Sumon Creature V, is useless! It shouldent be more powerfull then me, of course, but, it should be able to do SOMETHING other then cast color spray... I've used this summon and it does dito. It cant last in wyrmwood even. this is a level 5 summon
Give it more dex and make its spells DC a bit higher so it can have some effect, but preferably, make it a tank summon instead. thats what mages need. Tanks. Something to hold off the enemy while we inflict damage. All this thing does is make them laugh at the purdy colors and then splash some blood
.1 round / level is too low. I think the biggest problem with the summons is the last 2. The warriors and the elementals are very powerfull. levels 1 through 6 seem to be balanced.
Cleric should have differen't summons than mages and cleric summons should be more support summons then tank summons. A cleric is already a tank.
Cleric should have differen't summons than mages and cleric summons should be more support summons then tank summons. A cleric is already a tank.
i like the summons for the most part 
these things have to last thru epic levels, they already have low ac.
i cant seem them replacing tanks at all who get more hp/ac/ab, and much more overall damage.
as for making then 1 round/level.......a mage really needs the summon early on, so that's gonna hurt them majorly.
i agree with toxic (omg!), especially with summon ix, and summon viii. can it make a caster lvl check and have it summon something appropriate for that lvl? so if a lvl 5 uses the scroll, it'll just go back to summon ii or something, but if a lvl 40 uses it, it'll summon a beefed up ix.
epic summons are 1 use/day :/ they'd need some serious beefing to make it worth a feat. (same with epic fiend and stuff like that)
these things have to last thru epic levels, they already have low ac.
i cant seem them replacing tanks at all who get more hp/ac/ab, and much more overall damage.
as for making then 1 round/level.......a mage really needs the summon early on, so that's gonna hurt them majorly.
i agree with toxic (omg!), especially with summon ix, and summon viii. can it make a caster lvl check and have it summon something appropriate for that lvl? so if a lvl 5 uses the scroll, it'll just go back to summon ii or something, but if a lvl 40 uses it, it'll summon a beefed up ix.
epic summons are 1 use/day :/ they'd need some serious beefing to make it worth a feat. (same with epic fiend and stuff like that)
so make the two epic summon spells stronger. but if we try to adjust the nonepic summon spells to epic monsters it will a) make the summons too powerful for the person who just got them or b) if say the 9th level summon scales with the player CR it undercuts the epic summons basically giving you an epic summon minus the feat u are supposed to take
O heat, dry up my brains! Tears seven times salt
Burn out the sense and virtue of mine eyes!
Burn out the sense and virtue of mine eyes!