Aw...that'll teach me to do research.

[Blystos Re]

Go ahead and lock this after the fact, but I have one beef, and ONLY one with the PM PrC.

It would appear that you can take Pale Master levels as an Earth Genesi and still remain smite immune.

What's the big deal?

Straight from the wikki:

Bone Skin
From Neversummer 4 Wiki
Type of Feat: Class
Prerequisite: Pale Master 1
Required for: None
Specifics: The character gains an innate +2 bonus to their AC at 1st, 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, 20th, 24th, and 28th levels.
Use: Automatic
This AC is considered Natural armor bonus.
This AC is also stackable with Armor Skin and Draconic Armor but does not count to the +20 AC limit from natural souces.

Earth Genesi
Favored Class: Fighter
Must be Neutral-aligned
+2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity, -2 Charisma
+2 to all Fortitude saving throws
Half damage from all acid-based attacks
Barkskin 1/day as cast by a 5th-level Druid up to Level 10
At Level 10, Barkskin increases to Stoneskin plus 3 Natural AC
At Level 20, Stoneskin increases to Greater Stoneskin plus 5 Natural AC
At Level 30, the Earth Genasi receives a 30/+10 Damage Reduction and 7 Natural AC
At Level 40, the Earth Genasi's Damage Reduction is increased to 40/+20 and 9 Natural AC

So, at level 40, you have a toon who is stun/crit/sneak/paralasys/smite immune that has a +27 to natural AC - bare nekkid - and that's if they don't take Armor Skin.

Autostill is available to epic PMs for those that cast, which also means they can wear full plate and carry a tower shield. There's some pretty nice epic half-plate out there for Sorcs & Wizards with these feats and the only downside is a 5% fire vulnerability. Insert Dwarven Fireproof Shield here. That will grant some additional damage resistance/immunity...you won't need it with your 40/20 DR.

Since Earth Gen doesn't get penalties to Int or Wis, your will save won't suffer. Forget about fortitude - your save is in the bag. If you need to, use a +2 con book to bring your very basic fort save bonus up to +4...because I am going to assume you start with a con of 10 and don't apply any stat bonuses to con other than the +2 that you get for Earth Gen. Maybe you'll want to for some additional hitpoints, not that you will need those either because of the hp bonus that you'll get from being a PM.

I am pretty sure that with 12 levels of Wiz or Sorc you could cast Protection from Spells (don't know for sure - I don't play those classes). Dispellable? Sure! But that's another spell that your opponent will have to fire off while you are beating them with their own arms. Keep in mind that you get an extra slot for level 7 spells from that armor I mentioned earlier.

Or you can take Bard levels instead and bump your UMD up to 20 so you can use just about anything for any class on the server. Get some high-level scrolls and go to town. Since you get a minus to cha from Earth Gen you probably don't want to take Sorcerer levels anyway, and bard has access to tumble for more AC that you won't need. Definitely take Bard.

So, a very high AC toon that's not dex based and has pretty nice saves. This toon can also use timestop scrolls, bigs scrolls - any scrolls. Roll one up now while MA has a relic bonus most of the time and you probably won't even notice the ECL2.

---

Please point out if I am wrong with this.

To sum up:

I have no problem with PMs
I have no problem with Earth Genesi
I have no problem with Bards
...the combination of the first two or all three is nutty and makes my head spin.

This has nothing to do with any specific player or play style; whether they chug pots or not. Although it's pretty obvious what could be implimented to fix this, I will not recommend anything because it's not my job to come up with the solutions. Hopefully, though, I am not the only one that sees this as an imbalance....

I am done ranting about PMs being overpowered, because if this doesn't get my point across I don't think anything will.

Lock, flame or delete as you see fit.

~Re

[Gornickthy]

You are right in your assessment. But I would like to point out that I have still seen these type of toons get the beat down. I saw if first hand last night from an outside point of view, and I experienced it first hand today during friendly duel testing with a Blackguard. It sounds potent, and it is in a sense, but it is beatable. It just puts those little HiPSer, Crippling strike, sneakers at a disadvantage. I watched a lvl 40 pure ftr and a lvl 40 pure bar yank down a PM ultra build last night. SO although tough, it is not unbeatable.

[Blystos Re]

I think your assessment of how the numbers come together is a little skewed, the only reason to go with more than like 16 PM levels is to get the lvl 30 PM summon

Specifics: The character gains an innate +2 bonus to their AC at 1st, 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, 20th, 24th, and 28th levels.

In addition to that, getting the bonuses to your hitpoints (+5 at epic levels) is probably nice.

I never even mentioned the summon in all this, either. Thanks for bringing that up! In addition to all that I mentioned above, you get this nifty summon that's not at all easy to dispell and is pretty mean....hey, where'd you go?

[Ebenezer Grymm]

I just don't get what you were getting at, you mention PM's, Earth Gens, Bards, and Wizards.

So an Earth Gen PM Bard Wizard is scaring you somehow?

My reading comprehension is usually off the charts but you lost me, I think you were trying to say one thing but it came out "Wow, thats a good combo."

[Blystos Re]

Not scaring me at all, I mean, it's a game, right?

And no, not all 4 combined.

And a further no, I haven't lost you. You are spot on.
"Wow, that's a good combo."

...You mentioned that you're working on one of these right now in your comment that you deleted. How is that coming along, and what are some other pointers you could give beyond the bare-boned basics I've listed above?