Deep Breath Everyone

Talk about Neversummer 4 with your fellow players.
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Wolfarus
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Deep Breath Everyone

Post by Wolfarus »

There. Dosnt that feel better? we're all nice n' calm..warm, soothing thoughts..

Now then..Since the ive seen more people using Alexia as a "Bad" example in their arguments and suggestions, i want to go on the record that ive never played with her (im gonna assume alex is a her, since everybody else says that...or maybe they are just referring to her avatar..heh) or met her in LA, im going to give her the benefit of the doubt and think of her as a nice person until/if she proves it otherwise.

Second part.. All the debate about mages and fighters, can be boiled down to this (methinks) and WITHOUT quoting every obscure die roll, hit percentile, way of building, ect that allot of you seem to like doing. Not all of us are closet Dm's, ty. Some of us just like playing this type of game! :lol:

There are basicly only 2 MAIN types of chars in RPG's. Magic users and melee fighters. (with various combos and subspecies of each) A cleric could be called a caster backed up with fighter abilites, and a paladin could be called a fighter backed up by caster abilities. Now, its been my experience that THE biggest threat to a fighter is the mage. A mage can stun you, take control of you, take away your str, ect ect. Many, many ways to deal with a fighter. And THE biggest threat to a mage is a fighter. Mages arnt generally made to be half as healthy as a fighter, and not even 1/3 as strong. So if a fighter manages to connect with a few solid blows, chances are the mage looses. Thats called balance.

Now with the ways things are NOW (remember this is BETA people, which means things can and will most likely change) i genuinely do see a lean towards mage supremacy. They still have their one hit kill spells, on top of everything else they can do to a fighter. (slow him down so it takes him twice as long to close with you, letting you get off more spells) While fighters, on the other hand, have had their "pinnacle" ability taken away (dev crit). Dev crit is NOT a guranteed success, just like FoD or Weird/Wail. However, spells have a better chance of working then the blade. Simple fact so far. There are ways and builds to improve the weakest aspect of your char, and by all means do it. As was said, this isnt NS3, the gear dosnt make the char. The build/char makes the char.

And the added reality that high lvl mages (14th lvl and above) were NEVER meant to be so common that you can expect to run into them once every other map or so, i think its just a matter of fair balance to give fighters back the dev crit. Try it out, see how it goes. I bet you that we'll see its not such a huge advantage over the other classes as we think.

And think about this too : We all agree that NS4 is meant to be more of a party server then a solo, right? Well, if ONE high lvl / well built mage gives any one party so much grief, how are you gonna handle 2? or 3? Wouldnt take a genius to have one mage as the "anti magic" guy, one mage as the "pound em with area spells / functionality interferrence guy (slow, drain str, dex ect) and one as the "finisher" (FoD, wail, ect). If half of the classes dosnt have a CHANCE to take down high risk magic users QUICKLY, then yes mages will dominate and the other classes will suffer immensely.

As this nearly 2pm, i work the grave yards and im unable yet to fall asleep, im not looking forward to 2night. Ick.
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Post by Lework »

when you have a crit range of 12-20 that equates to 45% of your attacks will be critical, with 4 attacks a round with haste (an average). thats like a mage casting 2 death spells every round, with unlimited casting and the only thing to stop the the dev crits is if you can get up close to a mage and do damage he can fail his concentration check. or kill the mage.

I really dont care with Dev crit in or out, but i think thats the way the devs see it.

in NS3 I saw high level characters dev critting everything in sight with 3-4 attacks. going through the path to paradise and killing every dragon in there with just 4 attacks is what the devs dont want to see in NS4.

thats my .02 cents..like i said before to me it doesnt matter, id rather they not change a single thing with the game and use other means to balance things out.

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Post by JesterOI »

DeputyDog wrote:Dev crit was removed becuase we cannot edit it to keep it in line

Everything about a mage we can edit and we will or have.

Quit bitchin. Its beta.. play, post findings, and we will adjust if we think it fits our view of the world. We are far from done, but we opened it up becuase everyone wanted to see where we were. Now all we hear is complaints:)

Great motivation there.
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EvilIguana966
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Post by EvilIguana966 »

The problem with Dev crit is

A) Only specific builds can get it, meaning it becomes either sorc or weaponmaster who can compete.
B) There is no immunity to it, spell or otherwise, and no way for the devs to create said immunity.
C) No player has the kind of save you need to resist it, which is somewhere in the 40s, and even if they did, there is still a 5% chance of insta death since the devs have been unable to fix this with regards to dev. crit.
D) It trivializes high end encounters, since the only way to make monsters immune is to make them crit immune. So now, any monster NOT crit immune gets killed instantly, meaning that all monsters must be made crit immune, which means that crit feats become useless and all melee classes that aren't weapon masters get nerfed.

In my opinion, all death spells should have some qualifying limits, like power word kill does. A HP or level limit which they work on. FoD might be made useful only on characters with fewer levels than the mage whhen she first gets the spell. Everquest has a similar system with some of the high end AA abilities. Or we could always go to a system where death spells do a certain HD of damage sort of like harm only limited a bit. So they would be VERY powerful nukes with the disadvantage of having a full save. Low level players will still be killed by high level players but...... I kinda think that's the idea ;)

So finger of death would eliminate maybe 10 levels worth of hps or so. If youre level 10 or lower you either make the save or die. If youre level 11 you would either save or be forced to heal/run etc with only 1 level worth of hps left. Its not Russian roulette anymore, and death spells are still useful.

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Post by JesterOI »

I thought ANY warrior class with the proper feats and attributes could get dev crit?
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Post by DrakhanValane »

Anyone at all who meets the requirements can get dev crit. The hardest part is the STR req.
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Post by Æ »

I totally agree with the original post to this thread... every word...

Iguana... Dev crit is available to any fighting class that gets the prerequisite feats, not just weapon master

As for the DC, it gets no higher than a mage can bring up his death magic DC with the right feats (focus, epic focus), skills (spellcraft) and abilities (int or chr)

And as for how many actual dev crit hits... you're forgetting how many classes have some sort of concealment which makes you hit them less than half the time... haste to keep distance and things like that... there's alot of factors and if you wanted to escape a fighter with dev crit, it's easy to run away... it's not easy to run away from death magic

And finally, dev crit can't kill a whole party in a split second, or even a single character, like a wail spell can.
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Joran
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Post by Joran »

Yeesh, people. At least try to stay on topic without killing each other, please. I've pruned the thread and remove all the off-topic/inflammatory posts.

Thanks for the sentiment, Wolfarus - I'll leave this locked to prevent the temptation of starting anything else up.

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