Amount of PK-ing tolerated?

[JesterOI]

I just made a human mage that at level one can attain 27 ac without armor or dex bonus.

[JesterOI]

Good stuff! I tried that above build in NS and found it won't work

[bongoblue]

Some people have made the transition to the new build requirements better than others it seems. One on one it is now easier for any class to defeat a mage than it ever was in NS3. Its time to start getting creative with your builds and looking at the options available to you.

Being a DM lets me look at every aspect of your characters, and let me tell you a good majority of the character sheets I look at are very obviously NS3 builds.

I hate to say this, but I wouldn't know which character build was better for ns3 and which was better for ns4.

I've created my characters based on what I think will work, after reading the forums.

Sometimes I've been correct, and sometimes the character looses combat too much for me to think the character will work out, so I stop using the character.

[Gil-Este]

i've created my characters based on how fun they will be to play not who they can beat easily.

but i will say this. my next seven characters will be seven fighting class characters. no monks, and probably no paladins. one for each faction. and each of them will be made to beat a mage of similar level.

[Tukaitangata]

1: Its time to start getting creative with your builds and looking at the options available to you.

AGREE.

2: Its a new world now, and there are going to be what I consider some really off the wall builds that will perform wonderfully.

AGREE.

3: Mages can get owned so easily by a tank of equal or even lesser level its scary.

I would AGREE but I get owned too much by them.


5: The problem is it doesnt appear that many of the players have taken a good hard look at the options available to them. Its no secret, cause the information you need has been available to you for months now already.

AGREE.

Nicely put and thanks for the reminder TGPO.

An arguement has been put forth and counter aguements have been submitted. A perceived imbalance has been aired and possible solutions returned. If we took pause here and truly read and digested what each person, then stepped back, drew a deep breath and returned, leaving aside our bias and maybe bruised ego , maybe then we could reach a middle ground. Please try.

I havent been playing NS for very long and am still hungover from NS3 I will admit. This mod however has allowed me a window into an all new realm of character creation. I fully expect to die horribly and miserably [and I already have] but that is because I'm still learning and experimenting. These posts, while a little *hot under the collar at times, provides me with the opportunity to access more information for character build. [but blindly stumbling in the dark with char builds still allows me the satisfaction of laying waste to that damned chicken that wandered to close to a leaking nuclear reactor....if only I wouldnt roll a damned 1 so many times!]

I have read only half the posts and replies here but already my creative juices are frothing at the mouth! [nope...sorry...it was that damned chicken thats got me frothy! ]

Can we all go back to the game now? I miss you all there.

The Whisperer. L.A.

[Tukaitangata]

I bet you $100 RL dollars I can kill your level 40 caster in one round at level 40 with a melee character.

I'll give you $200 RL dollars if you show me how!!!!

Seriously though, and putting aside the slightly *warmed* feelings in the posts, I just wanted to thank you for the solid information contained in your replys to the topic. Im new to DnD and to NS3 & 4 so its really good to see your opinions on character building.

SO many thanks from a *n00b!

The Whisperer. L.A.

ps: I'll make it $300....but thats my final offer!

[Chimaira]

There's no reason why, one on one, two characters of equal level and different class shouldn't prove to be a match for eachother... The mage doesn't nescessarily have MORE power at the same level, but a different kind of power... Keep in mind, we're not talking about your commone soldier, we're speaking of superhuman, godly warriors with supernatural physical strength and prowess (many fighters can lift a half ton or more and SHOULD be able to take alot of beating)

Said balance is impossible to achieve. That's right, impossible. The reason is that there will always always be a better build, and the better build will benefit from everything we give your gimped WM Rapier user to balance him against class X, resulting in the better build now way overpowering class X. Since you can't follow that, lemme try this way, using an example taken from the other games you likely play at recess with your play dates, DnD is like rock, paper, sciccors, the rock always loses to the paper, and if you let the rock win, then who can the paper ever beat? No one. So now the paper is gimped. So no one would chose anything but the rock, because the rock beats everything. Kinda makes it pointless no? But I understand you are the rock and you don't want to die anymore, but rather than make a better rock, or use scissors to kill that paper (mage) you want your rock beefed till it can beat the paper sometimes, but you always beat the scissors already. I hope this lesson in preschool balance has finally taught you why everyone else ignores you now.

DnD is not rock, paper, scissors, the 2 games dont even come close. You just think some people are actually stupid enough to believe you and that you can make them think they do. If Im going to compare this to monopoly or algebra I wouldnt get anywhere because I would just be as sad as you attempting to make myself look like im actually making sense while there really is no sense in giving a mage an advantage over fighters with items while the mage already has the advantage. In your world of making sense I would say the scissors is the dex based fighter, and the rock is the mage, paper would be the strength based CoT. Your trying to defend the rock because you need 50% immunity and 10/- resistance if you want to beat the paper aswell. But does this example make sense? No it doesnt and even someone that played NWN for 3 minutes knows that. Because if the strength based CoT switches to his 20% piercing immune and 10/- piercing resist shield when the dex based fighter uses a rapier, and switches to his 20% slashing and 10/- slashing resist shield when the dex based fighter switches to his handaxe, and switches to his 20% bludgeoning and 10/- bludgeoning shield when the dex based fighter uses a mace, then theres no way the dex based fighter will damage the strength based CoT for anything but like 10 damage on a crit, which isnt enough to beat the strength based CoT that will do 30+ damage on a crit even when the dex based fighter is 50% immune and 10/- resistant to the strength based CoTs weapon. So then we have rock paper scissors where the paper can only beat the scissors, and where the rock can beat both the scissors and the paper.

You can bet for $100 RL dollars you can beat my caster in 1 round when theyre both level 40 and sound like your dangerous, but even if I beat your fighter youll make up some excuse and not send the money and if it takes you 2 rounds to kill my caster youll bend the rules to your liking and say you won the bet, not like I expect you to actually bet with such a sum of money just to prove your point, your just trying to make others think you do.

Everyone doesnt ignore him, theyre just trying very hard, like you, to make sense while they know they cant, thus they try to find a workaround and use these kind of games and attempt to compare it to NWN, and then think that the few that actually care about how a game is ruined when there is absolutely no balance will actually come to a moment of enlightenment and say "Well of course, rock paper scissors, that is the awnser we have all been looking for!" "Come, we must follow the gods of infinite wisdom, for they are right, and that there is no sense in not giving a mage items with 25% immunity and 10/- resistance to physical."

[Knightwing4]

i'm not sure you guys realize it, but at least for me, i die at least once every hour MINIMUM with my lvl 13 mage, why? KD is the prime reason (who gave NPCs KD :PP),

also lack of spells hurts in dungeons (There's "enemies nearby' EVERYWHERE) and the fact that my fireballs do more damage to my summon than my enemies, and if i place my fireballs the NPCs move out of it 50% of the time i cast it

Back on topic, i kill newbs sometimes, i admit it, i see a guy running, he has decent looking armor, he's toast, i usually don't haev time to right click his moving char, go to examine, and look at his lvl.


BTW, i killed a newb, and got threatened to be reported by numerous people, what is this rule??

[TC-GTRF]

i'm not sure you guys realize it, but at least for me, i die at least once every hour MINIMUM with my lvl 13 mage, why? KD is the prime reason (who gave NPCs KD :PP),

also lack of spells hurts in dungeons (There's "enemies nearby' EVERYWHERE) and the fact that my fireballs do more damage to my summon than my enemies, and if i place my fireballs the NPCs move out of it 50% of the time i cast it

Back on topic, i kill newbs sometimes, i admit it, i see a guy running, he has decent looking armor, he's toast, i usually don't haev time to right click his moving char, go to examine, and look at his lvl.


BTW, i killed a newb, and got threatened to be reported by numerous

people, what is this rule??

Last I heard, and DD/Joran can correct me if I'm wrong, is that you're supposed to let Effortless enemies go unless they attack you. (more or less chase them back to the server they came from.) You also have to watch your summonses, since they'll attack anyone that's hostile whether you want them to or not.

TC

[JesterOI]

Hit v w x to make your summon stay put.
v e e to make it follow
v w e to amke it attack
v w f to defend you
v w d to heal you

[Æ]

I'm really quite tired of people telling me that because I'm having problems in an INCOMPLETE mod which openly and admittedly STILL NEEDS WORK that I don't know how to build characters and am not aware of the options available to me.... I've played on alot more servers than NS3, some of which are tactical servers that are harder and more limited in equipment and/or level than NS will ever be

I DO know that there aren't enough save bonus feats to make the differrence against death magic and not enough elemental resistance feats to make the difference against maxed and empowered spells

And all the warrior players can switch to paladin or COT, but then there would be no fighters or barbarians in the world

[powerferret]

or right click and use the radial menu.... i like using the mouse

[DrakhanValane]

I DO know that there aren't enough save bonus feats to make the differrence against death magic

...

And all the warrior players can switch to paladin or COT, but then there would be no fighters or barbarians in the world

I made a Fighter with a 25 fort save (28 vs. death spells) at level 20... naked. 28 (31) with just a +5 CON belt... and then I can hunt down death magic save items. And it only gets better as I get into epic levels.

Level 30: 37 (41) fort save naked.

Level 40: 44 (49) fort. Not much a chance of failing against wail now... is there? Again, naked. Would have been 45 (50) but I decided on perfect health and epic will instead of two more Great CON.

[Æ]

Yeah great lets all sacrifice all our strength for con and not be able to hit anything worth a damn or damage anything enough to get past all the immunities and resistances... the best defence is a good offense, and traditionally the only real defense a fighter has against a spell caster is to strike him down fast enough with incredible physical damage, which is why we switch to out two handed weapons for mages since the shield doesn't help anyway.... with all the imunities and resistances, this isn't possible anymore...

If we all hated the crazy gear in NS3 so much and want to see every character based alot more on their abilites than their gear, not the usual 50%/50% balance or the gear75%/abilites25% of NS3, then lets get serious and get rid of the resistances and immunities (i've never seen any of this stuff in a PvP environment... again play on Ancient Rage and NWTactics and other arena/team-pvp/capture the flag servers and one thing you will find in common is NO resistances and immunites....

[DrakhanValane]

Ooooh, you didn't tell me you wanted to be God and do everything with a single char. I'm sorry.