So is everyone enjoying the beta? I definately am... or at least i was...
Now I duno if this is spose to happen but i was out leveling happily as usual when i came to an area that had some guards from my faction, I was killing lions and tiggers and bears... OH MY! when my summon attacked a guard... next thing i know I have 3 or 4 guards hitting me so i killed them not wanting to lose exp/gold. I made my way back into town eventualy and the guards there were still friendly and i carried on as normal.
Later I came to another area that had guards from my faction but these ones were hostile again? This time I died hoping it would stop them from being hostile and respawn to find all the guards in my town are HOSTILE.
Ok, so now the guards are hostile and i try to escape invisable only to be spotted by the dragons wich have true seeing, these beat me black and blue so i respawn again. Im stuck in my barracks and cant leave town... next thing the server resets/crashes and i relog in to find that now all the players from my faction are hostile "yikes"
I have no idea wat to do... is it a bug? or have I been kicked from the faction?
Whats worse is im bound there so every time the guards/dragons kill me I spawn infront of them again... as much as i like the AO the inside of the barracks is no life for me.
Obviously the dev/dm's have alot on their plate atm but could one pls fix my faction problem or at least spawn me somewhere neutral it would be much appreciated.
Anywho good job with the beta... although it has its bugs here and there its still alot better than most full mods ive played.
My own faction is hostile to me?! :(
Heh- I can attest to the fact he's buggered.. after the server reset he's even showing as hostile to my AO Pc's.
Can anything be done about area attacks by guards and summons? at this point Sleeth would be safer if the npc's never attacked anything! I've had them attack my summons by mistake, and my summons has area attacked and turned them hostile to me. So far I've been lucky enough not to kill one and lose my faction rating, otherwise I'd be struck hiding in the corner too
Can anything be done about area attacks by guards and summons? at this point Sleeth would be safer if the npc's never attacked anything! I've had them attack my summons by mistake, and my summons has area attacked and turned them hostile to me. So far I've been lucky enough not to kill one and lose my faction rating, otherwise I'd be struck hiding in the corner too
I think it all went wrong once you decided to go ahead and kill your faction guards :) For the time being, you should probably play another character or find a way to get out of your faction HQ and down to Avendell, which should be a safe haven.
It might be a good idea if we added a "surrender" token of some kind. When used, it would signal your desire to cease fighting with members of your own faction. This could be used if your summon accidentally attacks the wrong creature, restoring you back to normal faction status.
However, this would only work if you're not already permanently branded an enemy - once you kill one of them, you'd be out of luck. Comments?
It might be a good idea if we added a "surrender" token of some kind. When used, it would signal your desire to cease fighting with members of your own faction. This could be used if your summon accidentally attacks the wrong creature, restoring you back to normal faction status.
However, this would only work if you're not already permanently branded an enemy - once you kill one of them, you'd be out of luck. Comments?
Well the problem seems to stem from NPCs not caring why you hurt them. They all think "If you hurt me, I'm gonna hurt you back", but they don't take into account that "If I hurt you, you'll want to hurt me back".
If a faction guard casts a fireball at our enemy and it hurts me, then I'm supposed to carry on and pretend nothing bad just happened. If I cast a fireball at our enemy and it hurts him, then I'm a bad bad man and all the nearby faction guards will want their pound of flesh for my mistake.
Similarly, it seems summons act in the same fashion. If a guard accidentally hurts a summon, the summon will follow the above logic and consider the guard hostile. However the guard is quite oblivious and when the summon inevitably hits him back, the guard is not only shocked and surprised, but he calls on the rest of the faction to protect him from what he thinks is an unprovoked attack! Ofcourse you can see things continue to spiral downwards as NPCs keep clashing like that and making bitter enemies out of each other just because of their own mistakes and/or negligence.
The ideal solution would be for NPCs that are hurt by allies to start considering the context of the situation. They should be far more forgiving of non-lethal friendly fire (whether it's from a misplaced AoE spell, or from a fighter that misclicks while targetting his knockdown) when you are engaged in combat. Sure if he attacks out of the blue then kick his [censored], but if everybody is fighting and nobody gets killed due to a friendly attack then allowing up to 2 or 3 mistakes per battle (so that abusers can't get away with continually purposely targetting allies) should be enough to keep everybody on fair and even terms.
If a faction guard casts a fireball at our enemy and it hurts me, then I'm supposed to carry on and pretend nothing bad just happened. If I cast a fireball at our enemy and it hurts him, then I'm a bad bad man and all the nearby faction guards will want their pound of flesh for my mistake.
Similarly, it seems summons act in the same fashion. If a guard accidentally hurts a summon, the summon will follow the above logic and consider the guard hostile. However the guard is quite oblivious and when the summon inevitably hits him back, the guard is not only shocked and surprised, but he calls on the rest of the faction to protect him from what he thinks is an unprovoked attack! Ofcourse you can see things continue to spiral downwards as NPCs keep clashing like that and making bitter enemies out of each other just because of their own mistakes and/or negligence.
The ideal solution would be for NPCs that are hurt by allies to start considering the context of the situation. They should be far more forgiving of non-lethal friendly fire (whether it's from a misplaced AoE spell, or from a fighter that misclicks while targetting his knockdown) when you are engaged in combat. Sure if he attacks out of the blue then kick his [censored], but if everybody is fighting and nobody gets killed due to a friendly attack then allowing up to 2 or 3 mistakes per battle (so that abusers can't get away with continually purposely targetting allies) should be enough to keep everybody on fair and even terms.
Unfortunately, computerized AI is incompatible with judging human intentions. There's no way for an NPC to know whether something was an accident or whether you're turning on them and they need to defend themselves.
You already are given many opportunities to stop and run away - a single attack does not turn them permanently hostile. It takes several attacks/spells (in fact, about 10-15) before your reputation is permanently damaged.
One attack WILL set them as temporarily hostile to you, however, but only for about 30 seconds. If you run off and return later, they will no longer be hostile to you.
You already are given many opportunities to stop and run away - a single attack does not turn them permanently hostile. It takes several attacks/spells (in fact, about 10-15) before your reputation is permanently damaged.
One attack WILL set them as temporarily hostile to you, however, but only for about 30 seconds. If you run off and return later, they will no longer be hostile to you.
All I'm asking is that a single attack doesn't turn them hostile at all if they are already engaged in combat, maybe even 2 or 3 at the most. Any more than that and then they go hostile like normal.
Don't forget that the above issue was created by a summon and a guard accidentally hitting each other. Even if you can't judge human intentions, you can certain judge the summon's intentions. If the above leeway wont get put in, then at the very least change it so pets and guards wont accidentally anger each other.
Don't forget that the above issue was created by a summon and a guard accidentally hitting each other. Even if you can't judge human intentions, you can certain judge the summon's intentions. If the above leeway wont get put in, then at the very least change it so pets and guards wont accidentally anger each other.
No, there's no way to judge a summon's intentions, either. They are directly controlled by the player.
What I can do, is have the guard only go hostile to the summon, and not to the player. However, that opens up an exploit for players to kill their own faction NPCs by siccing their summons at them, without worrying about retaliation. So that's probably not going to happen.
Summons are powerful, the tradeoff is that they are unpredictable. You'll have to make the decision on what you should do on your own.
What I can do, is have the guard only go hostile to the summon, and not to the player. However, that opens up an exploit for players to kill their own faction NPCs by siccing their summons at them, without worrying about retaliation. So that's probably not going to happen.
Summons are powerful, the tradeoff is that they are unpredictable. You'll have to make the decision on what you should do on your own.
Hmm ok I can see your point... Well the surrender token does seem like easiest way to go about it. How about adding in a tally system of sorts then? If I've killed 5 guards, and the guards have killed me 5 times, we're even and so effectively my standing with the faction should be as if I had never killed any of them.
Perhaps you could allow some means of voluntary suicide with full respawn penalties (or more) to help even the tally and bring you back below the threshold for hostility (the losses would be seen as punishment for your crimes). This option could be offered through dialoge with your surrender token, faction leader or maybe even your currently bound rift shard. Also, at whichever point you can choose to go to pay for your crimes, you could view the running tally and how many deaths you'd need to go through in order to wipe the slate clean.
Perhaps you could allow some means of voluntary suicide with full respawn penalties (or more) to help even the tally and bring you back below the threshold for hostility (the losses would be seen as punishment for your crimes). This option could be offered through dialoge with your surrender token, faction leader or maybe even your currently bound rift shard. Also, at whichever point you can choose to go to pay for your crimes, you could view the running tally and how many deaths you'd need to go through in order to wipe the slate clean.
Maybe let faction guards not drop anything and give no xp when damaged by a member of their own faction (until they heal back to full)? Then all attacks by allies could be rated as accidental so the guards won't get hostile towards you... 
I have opinions of my own, strong opinions - but I don't always agree with them!
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LadyCheron
- Developer
- Posts: 264
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 8:23 pm
- Location: Central Illinois - Flatland
We have also talked about an "Atonement" process whereby a player with a bad rep makes it to the Temple in his faction city, speaks to the Priest/ess, sacrifices LOTS of gold (on a per-level basis) and or performs an assigned quest, and has "alll his Sins washed away".
Berronar Truesilver, The Revered Mother
Domains: Good, Healing, Law, Protection
Domains: Good, Healing, Law, Protection
but now server 4 is down 
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ai_seleleth
- Noob
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:50 am
Sorry to dig up an old topic, but it's all new to me since I just started playing this very cool game.
I just wanted to say that I would love to see a "surrender" type option myself. I'm a big idiot and I attacked my townspeople. Now they're enemies with me. I don't care much about the city anymore, since I don't really need anything there. But I do care about the fact that I'm hostile by default with all other members of my faction. It seems everyone wants to rough me up now when I walk by, in town or out, thinking I'm an enemy.
So if you can come up with a future solution, that would be marvelous. If a DM can "reset" my alliance in the meantime, that would be super marvelousiocious with a cherry on top. My account name is "ai_seleleth". My character is "ai seleleth legos". I'm a member of the Mystrals guild (or at least I used to be).
Thanks!
I just wanted to say that I would love to see a "surrender" type option myself. I'm a big idiot and I attacked my townspeople. Now they're enemies with me. I don't care much about the city anymore, since I don't really need anything there. But I do care about the fact that I'm hostile by default with all other members of my faction. It seems everyone wants to rough me up now when I walk by, in town or out, thinking I'm an enemy.
So if you can come up with a future solution, that would be marvelous. If a DM can "reset" my alliance in the meantime, that would be super marvelousiocious with a cherry on top. My account name is "ai_seleleth". My character is "ai seleleth legos". I'm a member of the Mystrals guild (or at least I used to be).
Thanks!
Ninjas are mammals. Ninjas fight ALL the time. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.