Domains

[P. Fricebottle]

At this moment, the Travel and Trickery Domains dominate the domain choices for cleric. I know clerics got it going great, but its all the same all the time. It be nice to mix things up a bit.

Elemental Domains
The Air, Earth, Fire, and Water Domains generally go unloved and un-used. You can get Ice Storm from Magic instead of Water with more spells, same with Stoneskin from Earth and Magic. Also, theres the lame ability of being able to turn Elementals.

• *Its useless enough turning undead, now you can be twice as useless with any of these domains and fail at scaring elementals as well as undead. Not to discredit Turn Undead, but its not going to compensate for the lack of that 50% speed increase or concealment.

Suggestion: Was that for whatever domain you choose, you can summon a creature from that elemental type as well. Now, I'm not sure whats hard-coded and whats not, but perhaps a summoning token could be used. Like a Water Elemental with Water Domain, Earth Elemental with Earth Domain, etc. This way, people can break the normal Solar/Balor summon routine with their own summon. Have it scale with level, eventually become elder, and would it be possible to make the Spell Focuses affect them as well?

Healing Domain

I went through the Change Log, and I noticed the maximum amount of points you can heal with spells. Now, I noticed that the Heal spell was the only one where at level 40 a cleric with the Healing Domain healed more than one without.

• *The other spells had a maximum that could be reached by anyone, with or without domain. So that limits the domain's use to +160 hp when casting the Heal Domain. Its a nice bonus considering you can cast it on both spell levels of 5 and 6, but could use more overall for other healing spells.

Suggestion: Its a good domain, but the healing spells could have a lift on the maximum amount of hp they use to provide some headroom for this domain so it is more effective.

Animal Domain

Reading the summon changes, I noticed it no longer summons a creature of one higher spell level but increases the strength of animal summons. Which makes sense, but quickly uses its use for Summon Creature IX summons Elder Elementals (Constructs) and not Animals.

• *Now, I'm not sure if thats actually the way it operates. If the summon really is dependent on its type being Animal, or it works some other way. The Bonus spells are much worth it, True Seeing at level 3 and Polymorph Self, but it be nice if it could summon their own Animal from Summon Creature IX.
  
  Suggestion: Simply change the creature summoned from Summon Creature IX and/or the other Summon Creature spells. Also, perhaps add a little more strength into their Polymorph Self spell. I find it cool that a cleric could do a little shifting, not as good as a druid, but it should be decent nonetheless.
  
  Death Domain
  
  I remember everyone talking about the summons from this, and I think thats the only thing that needs to be put in for this Domain. The Negative Plane Avatar, for this is definitely a summoning undead domain. I remember people talking about wether it either affected or didn't affect an undead summons, someone will have to clarify.
  
  Destruction Domain
  
  The spells you earn aren't exactly fantastic, and the maximum of 40d3 vs constructs is pretty darn pitiful. Perhaps earn in more...destruction? A +2 boost to the DC for the Destruction spell maybe. Something to make this domain interesting.
  
  Protection Domain
  
  I noticed this is supposed to cast an improved form of Sanctuary, but Sanctuary is supposed to be changed so I don't know. Supposably the DC is supposed to be 10 + Cleric Level + Charisma Domain. Which means a pure level 40 cleric with max charisma could get the domain up to 10 + 40 + 22(??) = 72.
  
  • *An impressive DC with a depressing duration of 1 round per level + Cleric's Charisma modifier which would be around 6 turns (62 Rounds). Or so thats how I got it. I'm guessing it operates like the Trickery Domain, not a spell as much as an ability that you can use. Someone else would have to test this out. If its just an improvement to Sanctuary, then it could be extended which would be okay.
    
    Suggestion: I don't know, maybe just make it like you guys did with Blinding Speed. Whereas the dexers get Bioware Haste with it, Protection Domain casters get Bioware Sanctuary.
    
    
    
    Alright I'm tired, and you guys probably are tired of all the work anyway so I'll just stop here. I was going to type something about the Sun Domain with its "exceptional turning," but I've yet to bother to test it.

[JesterOI]

Death Domain affects undead summons in general.
However, it does not affect Pale Master or Black Guard summons.

[mgrjebbo]

good ideas thanks m8 its something i have wanted to bring up for awhile but feared the "clerics are already to uber" reply.

keep in mind clerics were well balanced recently. i think alittle underbalanced even.

they are a support class now not a main class and the only reason people play cleric and not bard is that you can wear armor.

that being said even a support class should have some rockin abilitys.

we talk about the commitment that PM's give to get immune to crits, if i make a 40 level commitment to cleric i still end up with crap!

[JesterOI]

Better off with Cleric than Mage.

The raising of healing spell caps for Healing Domain would be the most straight forward for that domain.

Destruction could increase the dmg cap on the Cause Wounds/Harm line of spells. Could also let it give a DC boost to SlayLiving/Destruction/Implosion.

Protection Domain ability Sanctuary could be changed to a party buff that gives 10/+20 dmg reduction or 20% physical damage immunity. Also universal saving throw bonus too.
Better yet make the amount of protection scale with the amount of cleric levels.

[Amoenotep]

the elemental domains should be getting used when creating one of those fancy genasi clerics....atleast, with all these earth gens running around they better be using earth domain.

[Binkyuk]

I'll repost this as an idea for making Trickery Domain less totally indispensible

i'd suggest Greater Sanctuary be turned into a *very* short lasting invis (5 rounds or so), and 0.5r/l 50% concealment.
that'd reduce the overwhelming reliance on trickery domain and mix it up a bit. trickery will still be good enough by giving 'travel' invis and concealment while gsanc would essentially be a combat cast, and at a higher spell level. it'll just be downgraded from 'absolute necessity' to 'very nice to have'.

this wouldn't make it attractive to wiz/sorcs, (as they always get imp invis) but it could be made useful to them by adding damage reduction or another defensive benefit (probably dodge ac) with focus in transmutation (which most clerics won't bother with, but mages probably would) - basically a level 7 version of ethereal visage.

edit: possibly change the spell school to Illusion too if this is done. Illusion focus is quite underused right now (think of the poor gnomes!).

I definitely agree that the +1/3 for Healing domain should be applied after the min/max. Right now as you say once you have a decent number of cleric levels (and what healing focused cleric doesn't) it makes very little difference.

Death domain is okay. Gives an extra boost to your MD summon if you're too starved of feats to afford an extra necro focus. I get why it's not applied to BG and PM summons, that'd just promote 1 level cheese.

[kingfatzo]

aye good ideas indeed....the earth,air,etc...ususally used in combination w/ X-genasi subraces are usually of no other benifit than that they are required for the subrace <<< well they supposed to be, tho i am not sure if this has been properly implimented.. last time i checked i was able to make a travel/war earthgenasi (just for experimental purposes - not to auctually build)

the elemental domains should be getting used when creating one of those fancy genasi clerics....atleast, with all these earth gens running around they better be using earth domain.

...my build follows the proper earth/X domain rules.... and i hope that if anyone out there didnt, that their toon gets invalidated

a unique summon - cool idea , however, i know that they toned down clerics once so , obviously changes would have to be within reasonable bounds

[P. Fricebottle]

To Jester: Implosion is Evocation while Destruction and Slay Living are Necromancy, so I'm pretty sure Implosion is out of the picture for a DC increase. Nice idea with the addiotonal damage for the Inflicts and Harms though, maybe it would open up some nice harming builds. As of right now theres not much you can do with them, can't max harm so its only availabe on one level. The extended haste level .

Concerning the Unique summon. Its not meant to make the Cleric more uber, just spread him out more. Right now its just mostly Cleric/Monk with Travel and Trickery domain, with the few exceptions. By taking one of these un-loved domains, you can get your own unique summon that no one else has. Also it could be made strong if you focus in it.

Concerning Animal Domain, I notice not much has been said about this but I'd like to put out the question again if its possible that a Cleric with Animal Domain summons Animal type creatures only so that they actually reap the benefits of their domain. Summon Creature IX is elementals, so they're getting the short end of the stick.

[Celorn]

the elemental domains should be getting used when creating one of those fancy genasi clerics....atleast, with all these earth gens running around they better be using earth domain.

My earthgen cleric (on refl & prime) both have the earth domain, don't wanna lose any level40's due to exploiting.

One small thing that I think would spruce up either or both the Elemental Gens and Elemental domains would be to modify Darkfire for them - ie: Earth Domain gets Acid damage (2d6) instead of fire, and if you're an Earth Gen as well, there could be another boost (ie: 2d10).

Another small idea would be to modify the elemental protection spells in a simlar way -- make them cause 1d4 damage of the domain &/or gen type, when an enemy hits...

[mgrjebbo]

well harm/cause are increased greatly by necromancy focus. with the bonus to the above and the effect it has on undead summons as well as mummy king i think its a good focus to take.

ofcourse the above is all about necro focus and doesnt really apply to domains.

so if you increased destruction domain to give bonus's to these things and focused in necro i think it would be a bit overpowered.

however i do like the elemental ideas, and really think healing needs a big boost. if clerics are to be a support role," as they should be" then healing should really be a main focus. it could give raise dead a level sooner maybe, aswell as increased healing abilitys.

[disastro]

i also like the idea of expanding the "other" domains. give em something good enough that picking them won't make you regret skipping travel/trick every day of your life. You'd see a lot more diversity in cleric builds.

I went with death domain instead of travel. lack of haste does make me tear up once in a while, but watching my mummy king in action takes the sting out of it (just wish he had a weapon i could buff).

if gsanc was modified to be a ghetto imp invis that would open up a ton of cleric possibilities. i.e. something like:

cast gsanc and it gives a sanc (with a decent +dc saving throw, right now i have yet to see it EVER work) until you attack. after that it becomes a 25% conceal + dr 10/-

not as good as imp invis, not as good as ethereal visage, but good enough that you could conceivably give up trickery and not instantly die to amazons.

[Binkyuk]

I'm not convinced about altering things too much based on subraces, though as Genasi have arbitrary restrictions that apply only to clerics it might be justified.

I like the idea of Destruction domain boosting the inflict spells actually. As it's Destruction rather than 'Undead Healing' boosting DCs is probably more fitting than boosting damage.

and once more for the visually challenged...

'd suggest Greater Sanctuary be turned into a *very* short lasting invis (5 rounds or so), and 0.5r/l 50% concealment.
that'd reduce the overwhelming reliance on trickery domain and mix it up a bit. trickery will still be good enough by giving 'travel' invis and concealment while gsanc would essentially be a combat cast, and at a higher spell level. it'll just be downgraded from 'absolute necessity' to 'very nice to have'.

this wouldn't make it attractive to wiz/sorcs, (as they always get imp invis) but it could be made useful to them by adding damage reduction or another defensive benefit (probably dodge ac) with focus in transmutation (which most clerics won't bother with, but mages probably would) - basically a level 7 version of ethereal visage.

edit: possibly change the spell school to Illusion too if this is done. Illusion focus is quite underused right now (think of the poor gnomes!).

[disastro]

and once more for the visually challenged...

i saw your original statement and proposed modifications to it. a "can't attack" sanc effect with a save is different and somewhat less powerful than full invis in pvp terms, however it's good enough to let you run across zones without having to deal with gobs of rats and vermin.

i also proposed less than 50% conceal since that's effectively giving every cleric the trickery domain for free (think extend spell feat).

[JesterOI]

I've never really noticed Domains following any spell school in particular, so why would spells from only one school have to be affected?

Also I don't see it being overpowered Having Destruction Domain give a DC bonus for certain spells, even implosion. It something stupid like +10DC is done, then ya. I'm sure the devs would come up with a good barely useful number if it was implimented.

Bumping wounding/harm spell DMG caps by taking Destruction would work well. Increase dmg cap by 50%. 450 with Harm, oh noes! The spell has a save for half.

[Dynmi]

I agree with making these other domains a tab bit more usful, as for people TC they're the only domains that can be taken.