Spell Modifications/Adjustments

[JesterOI]

No Focus: +2 enhance, +1d4 magic, +1d4 negative/positive
Focus: +3 enhance, +1d6magic, +1d6 pos/neg
GFocus: +4 enhance, +1d8magic, +1d8 pos/neg
EFocus: +6 enhance, +1d10magic, +1d10 pos/neg

Or if that is too much still, switch the neg/pos dmg up with a random elemental one like currently.

Could look like:
No Focus: +2 enhance, +1d4 magic, +1d4 elemental
Focus: +3 enhance, +1d6magic, +1d6 elemental
GFocus: +4 enhance, +1d8magic, +1d8 elemental
EFocus: +6 enhance, +1d12magic, +1d12 elemental
It might be worth looking at again but 1d12 magic & 1d12 elemental is to high

Edit: I've been switching between using a staff and a rapier on my bard/rdd. Have to say that using the staff is a definite disadvantage. Even at amazons where they have lower tolerance for bludg dmg.
No weapons feats for rapier at all.
Was using a Merfolk Rapier of Pain and a MA Arcane Staff, the one with 3d6 elemental on it (4d6 with blackstaff acid)
The definite advantage was to the rapier all the way through. And, I didn't even have flame weapon on the rapier.

Can't see why I would switch to using a staff, even with current black staff on it (maybe not even with the magic/elemental dmg combo above). Especially if I would have to spend a level 8 or 9 slot for casting it, instead of a level 2 or 3 slot for flame weapon and being able to use a WAY better base weapon type that could more easily fit the situation (rapier, scimitar, or warhammer).

[CrazyJ]

The Mord's Sword summon is a bit weak. Nice immunities, but weak enough compared to the Dire Mino that it goes unused 95% of the time... neutral casters may be otherwise since the Gray Render is the worst summon in the game (aside from possibly the Celestial & Fiendish Chickens).

[JesterOI]

Last I checked the Mord Sword spell doesn't get bonus from Focus Conj either. Could be mistaken, I only checked quickly.

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Evard's Black Tentacles... Last I checked this spell is affected by Mind Immunity... Yet it is a Conj spell that summons black rubbery tentacles that smash things. Logically if Bigbies (which is now a Conj spell as far as NS goes) bypasses mind immune shouldn't tentacles do so as well? The two spells seem to work the same way. And since when does a spell with a FORT save get affected by mind immune? Stunning Fist is a fort save and isn't affected by mind immune.

Yes, I know spells don't always work according to description, but it would be nice if this spell could.



What I gather from the spell description is it conjures up to a max of 20 tentacles, each one doing 1d6+4 dmg (assuming bludge). So, vs 1 or 2 targets, the spell should do 10d6+40 (avg 75dmg) per round to each target (with sufficient caster levels). If there are more than 2 targets then the 20 tentacles are divided equally among the targets.
Each target that is hit by a tentacle must make a fort save or be paralyzed for 6 seconds.

Considering it's a level 4 spell that deals easily resitable bludg dmg, 75avg dmg (100max) isn't that big a deal exactly, especially considering that a level 6 spell working in a similar fashion can do 140dmg of a type that is not nearly as resistable. Both should be able to be spread thin dmg-wise in the same manner.

Finally, this is an easy one, if any creature in the AoE of the spell has Small Stature feat, they get complete immunity to the spell.
We are looking at some changes with this spell

[JesterOI]

I thought FB was still 10d6, did it get changed?

Everyone and everything pretty much runs around with maxed HP, which is 50-60% more hp on avg (excluding Con Mod).

Boosting spell dmg to make up for this would be great.
FB would be d9 isntead of d6.
Magic Missles 1d6+1 instead of 1d4+1.
Horrid d12 instead of d8.
etc.

Then for Epic levels double the caps or add an extra dmg die @ casterlvl 21 and every caster level thereafter.

[CrazyJ]

Oh, fireball's 10d6? That would explain why it seems so weak. Still thinking the 2nd ed 10d10 cap.

The problem with higher-level spellcasting isn't DCs...it's damage (lack of).


On party-un-friendliness making a lot of spells (most of the cone spells and aoe evo spells) unusable with a party--is it possible to make it so that party members take 1/2 damage, and have a bonus to their saves against the rest? That would make ice storm, cone of cold, etc. at least somewhat useable since you'd have a chance of actually damaging the enemy more than your own party.

[Binkyuk]

IMO there are enough party friendly damage spells for wiz/sorcs and druids to throw around - Lightning Bolt, Negaburst, ILMS, Firebrand/Ball Lightning, IGMS, Wilting, Meteor Swarm.
They all have disadvantages in the form of lower damage, smaller AOE or reflex 1/2, but that's a tradeoff you'd expect.

OTOH the two spells I'd campaign for it are:
Chain Lightning - It'd be great to have a realistic alternative to IGMS at level 6 and this would give casting clerics a major boost (provided (heaven forbid) they pick a domain other than Travel and Trickery).
Ice Storm - A bit more reluctant as it is No Save, but it'd be nice for bards to have a boost to Direct Damage should they feel like it (it's only a l4 spell for casting classes, nothing on the l6+ damage spells) and it's another Cleric spell with Magic (and Water) domain.

[JesterOI]

Then for Epic levels double the caps or add an extra dmg die @ casterlvl 21 and every caster level thereafter.

*every 2nd casterlvl

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Party friendly? Bah, considering the state of spell DC's in the epic levels friendly rogues/monks/sd will NEVER take dmg.

Which makes me want to say again... Enable auto-failure for saves on a 1.

Screw this auto-kd/slow/daze bolt BS currently on monsters.

The random mayhem from fail-on-1 would be much more fun (and yes, I do know that there would be lots of it )

[JesterOI]

The numbers in the late game = (DR Spells = junk)

Epic Warding works though, though it is still skipped by certain creatures.

It seems fine atm.

Bumping the Stoneskins and Premo to have a better +X is a definite yes, though +20 is waaay too much.

Increasing duration of Epic Warding is also another idea.

[disastro]

to clarify: the reasoning for this would be to provide a more stable target to balance against. if the dr spells all had a known standard usefulness (i.e. are not invalidated by changes in +enhancement on weapons, etc) then you could nail down one side of the equation.

more specifically you could play around with the maximum +enhance on epic weapons, and the availability of +enhance on crafted lower level items without having to constantly revisit caster dr. (basically for exactly the same reasons wizards changed dr to this system in 3.5e and the devs made the armor system here the way it is).
Interesting idea but to many other things would take priority, look for changes in protections for pure class casters

[JesterOI]

Make the duration of Magic Fang and Greater Magic Fang the same duration as the Summon I-IX spells.

There's no reason not to.
Coding them to match a summon would be a pain easier to make the duration match darkflame which will be done shortly

[mgrjebbo]

Short duration cleric Ab buffs. Such as divine power and divine favor are good well used buffs. The only thing i would like to see changed with them is the duration.

Not a big change, just alittle longer would be nice. Having to cast it, kill one mob, and cast it again for the next is alittle tiresome.

And i have it extended and it still doesnt last but 2 or 3 mobs in a nice party.
Divine power is very powerful, exta attack, base attack increase 33%, extra hp it needs to be a very short duration

[disastro]

this is in no way advantageous, rather practical, simply because it will make parties more efficient (less stops for rest) ...its not like it would be giving a cleric any real advantage seeming that most clerics will slot 5 or 6 + of these spells

but thats just my opinion

i think it's this way to intentionally slow clerics down. if you want to fully buff up you will spend a few rounds casting all these spells in every skirmish, giving you effectively only 5-10 rounds of action before they wear off. sort of like a "stop and go" penalty in auto racing. generally i dont bring them all up and just alternate, unless it starts to get ugly and i need to go super saiyan to get out of a bind.

the only thing that i think is really too short is divine shield/might. using both of those you really get hit with the casting time, i'd suggest turning those into a free or quickened action so that you could concievably attack a boss with everything on (as it is: d power d shield d might d favor .. a few rounds later and now your shield is gone.)

[JesterOI]

Change Greater Magic Fang back to +1 / 3 lvls

Why every 5 levels? Why mess with a formula that wasn't broken?

I'm level 9 atm, and GMF is still only doing +1, why use GMF at this point when MF is still just as good?

I honestly don't understand the biased against casters.

While you're at it, maybe you should nerf Bark Skin to 1ac / 5 levels too. I mean it's only a level 2 spell, why should it have better progression than a level 3 spell?
Tempting to edit, if you want to help suggest, ripping on designs that were made for non-planes doesnt help. Caster spells are being changed constantly but not everything overnight, this kind of post does nothing to help ns4

[Metis]

More editing, if you have a suggestion post it, start a new thread to discuss but after editing it down from 9 pages it gets hard to find the ideas instead of looking through a ton of posts discussing it.

[JesterOI]

Earthquake needs to be beefed again. It doesn't hold a candle to Bombard.

level 8 slots: Bombard
level 9 slots: Silenced Bombard

Earthquake just isn't doing it. Sure it skips SR, but by the time that point becomes useful the target saves 90% of the time and has so much HP the spell is pointless.