When is enough enough?

[mgrjebbo]

I fear that NS4 is turning into NS3.5 very fast. Its a slippery slope and soon enough it will no longer be about the build.

If we have gloves or gauntlets with +10 str what is the point of building a barb... hit points right... but with a belt of con +10 you dont need to be a barb.

And likewise stat bonus's will now be affecting all classes.

I for one dont care for the new crafting up grade option, its a good idea but with what i see being purposed, its way to overpowered.

If you want crafted items to be the best on the server lower the stats on all dropped gear and make the crafted alittle better.

+7 weapons need to stay on ns3.5 most players came here because it about the better build.

It should stay that way.


There i said what everyone else was thinking.

[Kirg]

Yup, I think, +10 is too high. Please scale it down a bit.
Although I don't think that +7 weapon is too high. Still it should be the highest we can reach here.

[mgrjebbo]

Now i have heard that there isnt a big different between a +4 weapon and a +7 weapon. But we have to stop somewhere. And i belive that point was past already.

[TheBestDeception]

I fear that NS4 is turning into NS3.5 very fast. Its a slippery slope and soon enough it will no longer be about the build.

Quoted for truth.

Being a relatively low magic world is one of the things that made NS4 such a great PW to play in, as it allowed different builds to do different things.

This is testing that idea quite a bit.

[Kirg]

Now i have heard that there isnt a big different between a +4 weapon and a +7 weapon. But we have to stop somewhere. And i belive that point was past already.

Actually there is. Ask any mage with greater Stoneskin or Premonition . If I would plead for a cap, it would be +5. But I'm not too sad with a +7 either.

[Mogath ::DD::]

If everyone has access to them it does not give anyone an unfair advantage so what is the issue?

[mgrjebbo]

it has nothing to do with fairness m8. It has to do with the fact that almost every NS4 player doesnt want weapons with more than +4 or 5 enchantment.

we arent uber gear collectors. we play NS4 because we want to better our building skills and the server forces you to do that because the gear wont make up for a builds short falls.


And a side note, i really do appreciate everything the devs and dms do to better ns4. this isnt about shaming someones work. to me its about listening to the players. no more gear. lets stop adding new things to the server and prefect the things we already have. jobs and pure class bonus's. Not uber gear. Atleast that is my feeling.

[Mythri Wolfwood]

The issued being argued at hand is that the better the magical items introduced, the more these items erode the abilities granted by classes and builds (ex. greater stoneskin, greater weapon, premonition becoming obsolete by level 25 and when hitting planes).

I can see the point mgrjebbo's making and can understand why people want better items to fight the tougher mobs introduced.

We'll just have to see how things get balanced in the coming weeks/months.

[mgrjebbo]

Just because a mob is new or different doesnt mean it has to be any tougher than the ones before it. Just because gear is new or different doesnt mean it has to have a higher enchantment.

You can have diversitie without over powering.

[MLoki]

Flash back a year or so and you see people complaining about mages being too powerfull and melee builds needing a boost. Now they give melee builds a boost and there are complaints about weapons being too powerfull. While I agree that this is supposed to be a low magic world and Barbs are deffinatly getting the short end of the stick. The Devs have heard our pleas in the past and have given melee builds the boost that they needed. Perhaps we can all settle down a bit and actually give the Devs a chance to make things right. (ie Metis is already revamping spells) After all they are doing a fantastic job, otherwise we wouldn't be here.

MLoki

[Poet]

it has nothing to do with fairness m8. It has to do with the fact that almost every NS4 player doesnt want weapons with more than +4 or 5 enchantment.

we arent uber gear collectors. we play NS4 because we want to better our building skills and the server forces you to do that because the gear wont make up for a builds short falls.


And a side note, i really do appreciate everything the devs and dms do to better ns4. this isnt about shaming someones work. to me its about listening to the players. no more gear. lets stop adding new things to the server and prefect the things we already have. jobs and pure class bonus's. Not uber gear. Atleast that is my feeling.

I find that whole post rather strange as any of the players that are asking DCN for weapons are asking us to get them the +6 ,+7, +8 and any high planar weapons.

If you arent a gear collector then fine..don't use over a +4 or +5 weapon..we won't care.

I believe the Devs are listening to the players and are doing a fantastic job. Besides..if you were a Dev and had spent weeks tweaking a new Plane or a new weapons system and someone complained that their job wasn't sufficient and they had Epic toons...wouldnt you just want to jump right on in building them a job sytem for their Epic toon..I THINK NOT!

THANKS TO ALL WHO ARE WORKING ON NEW THINGS FOR US!

[Celorn]

I agree with points on both sides of the argument.

-> +5 and above weapons currently bypass greater stoneskin and premonition, but with a bit of tweaking of those spells, they could be improved to match

-> +7 and +8 weapons do exist now, but most of them either have a weakness built-into them, or they're 2 handed (thus negating the ab bonus, bringing a +7 double weapon down to the AB of a 1-handed +5 ab weapon), or monk gloves.

-> pumping up the power of mobs to counter the ever increasing ab/ac due to increasingly powerful gear drops could stress the good builds vs. good gear problem, but if careful thought and planning is going into the new gear, the balance should just ramp-up.

If you arent a gear collector then fine..don't use over a +4 or +5 weapon..we won't care.

That's not the point... the fact that the higher stuff IS out there, so you require it to be competitive with everyone else.

--> --gasp-- the new crafted gear is...nearly unbelievable, now the hunt will be to levelup some level40 crafters.

[mgrjebbo]

i guess the point of this hole topic, and i see why the people making money off collecting the new gear wouldnt want to have their profits messed with, however my point was this.


You raise enchantments on weapons to make them good vs casters. you create some uber mob to deal with the new weapons. you have to up spell ability to cope with the new mobs. you have to up weapon enchantments to deal with the new spells. you creat some uber mob to deal with the new weapons. you have to up the spell ability to cope with the new mobs. you have to up weapon enchantments to deal with the new spells. you make some uber mob to deal with the new weapons. you have to up spell ability to cope with the new mobs.

and so on and so forth.

I belive its to late for ns4. the race has gone on to long. i just hope for ns5 that before the beta even starts there is a cap. a mandatory non moving cap, say +4 on weapons. you balance spells to deal with the +4. you make mobs accordingly. done and done. you can focus on getting those damn hippies some jobs for crying out loud, and balance the class individualy.

GEAR IS NOT THE ANSWER!!@!

[Amoenotep]

barbs aren't getting the short end of the stick....you guys just aren't paying attention to what barbs are getting.


oh, and btw Metis is doing a great job at trying to balance spell casters vs melee one little spell at a time. some of the bigger things take more time as they draw attention or power away from things alreayd planned.

[Poet]

i guess the point of this hole topic, and i see why the people making money off collecting the new gear wouldnt want to have their profits messed with, however my point was this.


You raise enchantments on weapons to make them good vs casters. you create some uber mob to deal with the new weapons. you have to up spell ability to cope with the new mobs. you have to up weapon enchantments to deal with the new spells. you creat some uber mob to deal with the new weapons. you have to up the spell ability to cope with the new mobs. you have to up weapon enchantments to deal with the new spells. you make some uber mob to deal with the new weapons. you have to up spell ability to cope with the new mobs.

and so on and so forth.

I belive its to late for ns4. the race has gone on to long. i just hope for ns5 that before the beta even starts there is a cap. a mandatory non moving cap, say +4 on weapons. you balance spells to deal with the +4. you make mobs accordingly. done and done. you can focus on getting those damn hippies some jobs for crying out loud, and balance the class individualy.

GEAR IS NOT THE ANSWER!!@!

If you believe that it is too late for NS4..then you ought to stop playing here and not complain about the new systems that are being developed for those of us that appreciate them.