Resting System Discussion

[Gil-Este]

what kind of novels do you read? where I come from half a novel is a bit longer than that.

[JesterOI]

Novels with lotsa picturs!!!

[JesterOI]

(And with that, I do believe this topic has offically gone off topic...)

So I bring it back!!!

Problem solved right here (if it's possible):

Take the time limits on trade skills, i.e. you have to wait 4 hours to get to journeyman, and toss those on to spell slots.

So, when you use a spell, a counter is started on that spell slot, and once the counter reaches a certain amount of time, whatever spell is in that slot becomes available (in the case of wizards, clerics, druids, rangers, and pally's, if no spell is picked, the slot is wasted for another recharge cycle).
As to the amount of time it takes for a spell slot to "recharge", I think the devs will have the best idea on how long that should be.
Also, set the counter time to stem from the GAME time that the spell was cast, so that you can't cheat by relogging.

This allows mages to have to pace themselves like they should technically have to, but will let them not have to go dry for much time if they play it right.

Some concessions to ease this for mages could be:

Lowering the cost of scribing. As to how much it should be lowered, I again believe the devs will have the best idea.

Return spells durations to their original settings.


Some of the best things about the above "recharge" time for spell slots would be that the devs could tailor this to specific classes, factions, alignments, spell lvl (more time for higher lvl spells), skill level (spellcraft), PC lvl, or even the area that the PC spends their spells, to get the perfect balance in, and add a new and possibly enjoyable element to playing spellcasters while at the same time adding some balance to them.

BOOYA!!! SLAMDUNK MOFO'S!!!

[Gil-Este]

thought about it more, not sure how viable the spell slot solution really is. its basically like putting a restraint on resting. except its only for casters. and you can still walk around. without spells.

[Æ]

Very well drawn out for everyone to plainly see Revenge, thanks

Fred the wizard kicks Billy the fighter's [censored] hands down

AND you didn't even take the 50% concealment from improved invisibility into account, which HALVES the likelihood of Billy being able to hit Fred and even FIND OUT if he's using the right weapon... and if the fighter even used his feats for KD, chances are, with the -4 for a KD attampt, he will not hit..... concealment stacked with damage reduction makes mages impossible to hit enough to more than half kill them before their spells waste you

anyway --clap clap--
now let's see if they respond to common sense or continue foolishly arguing against logic

and don't respond to something you don't read, it's pointless... any argument against something before you even know what's being said just invalidates your argument

[JesterOI]

Don't forget about scribing... You can make scrolls for using in a pinch.
I think scribing should have it's xp cost reduced.

[Revenge]

Hmmm it's not entirely bad... Just keep the timer low... You can use your racial ability every 10 minutes... But still that's bringing magic into the use sparingly category, which so many people seem to have trouble with.

Personally my only problem is that both a mage and his caster summon each do twice as much damage over time as a fighter, while the familiar/companion tanks. To even the odds you'd need 3 fighters against one caster, but from personal experience 2 fighters and a fighter/rogue up against a cleric still leaves the cleric at definite advantage since you will have a hard time getting past her heavy armor and summons that are twice her level.

[Revenge]

Very well drawn out for everyone to plainly see Revenge, thanks

Fred the wizard kicks Billy the fighter's [censored] hands down

AND you didn't even take the 50% concealment from improved invisibility into account, which HALVES the likelihood of Billy being able to hit Fred and even FIND OUT if he's using the right weapon... and if the fighter even used his feats for KD, chances are, with the -4 for a KD attampt, he will not hit..... concealment stacked with damage reduction makes mages impossible to hit enough to more than half kill them before their spells waste you

anyway --clap clap--
now let's see if they respond to common sense or continue foolishly arguing against logic

Ack yes, good point, Billy hits on average 0.75 times per round, not 1.5. Makes half damage over time.

The point about IKD is valid though, Billy would meet the IKD requirement of +7 attack bonus at lvl 7 and would have 6 feats by then, plenty of time to get KD before hand.

[Æ]

I totally agree with that, the summons are way higher level than the summoner... a lvl 15 cleric can summon a half celestial warrior that would tear my lvl 17 fighter/WM apart in a matter of seconds.

And in regard to the spell slot recharge times, I like the idea, and think it should be along the lines of the recial abilities (every ten minutes) "bringing magic into the 'use sparingly' category"..... spells should be in the "use sparingly category" in a "low magic world" shouldn't they?

And my fighter has improved offhand fighting, improved expertise, focus and specialization in rapier, exotic weapon proficiency so I can switch to any weapon (yes I do do that... reluctantly) and to use kukri in offhand in AB crunches, and he's getting less feats during his weapon master levels (not to mention all the feats i had to take to get weapon master lvls-- dodge, mobility, spring attack, whirlwind attack)... all my pre-epic feats are used up and it would be a waste to use my epic feats on KD or to take my weapon master lvl's at epic and get less epic feats.

[Revenge]

True enough, however few people seem keen on making casters wait around for any length of time, and so that's why I'm suggesting bashing the rest of the spells with the nerf stick as they've already started doing.

Eg. by bringing a fireball from 1d6/level to 1d4/level or something similar.

[Æ]

Caster's would never have to wait around, if they used their brains and spread out their spells, firing them off strategically rather than wanton-rapid-fire-cast-everything-until-the-chamber's-empty casting

I did it with my wizard in icewind dale II, where you were expected to get through a whole map without rest sometimes

[JesterOI]

Caster's would never have to wait around, if they used their brains and spread out their spells, firing them off strategically rather than wanton-rapid-fire-cast-everything-until-the-chamber's-empty casting

I did it with my wizard in icewind dale II, where you were expected to get through a whole map without rest sometimes

And there is scroll scribing now!

[Æ]

Yeah, that too }: )

[mumoogaipan]

Okay, maybe we need to consider that maybe there isnt a problem with mages unleashing all of their arcane power on one poor helpless person. If you take a non-magical character and have that character fight a magical character they are both going to unleash everything they've got at the other person. It's that simple. No one would suggest that the fighter only be able to use two of his 5 attacks on the mage before having to wait an hour. Why, because it is just plain silly @_@. Additionally, i think that no one has shown that mages shouldn't unload all of their attacks against a character except for that it is not fair. But to create a reactionary response to this problem is not the solution.

I also think that rest restrictions as well as spell tweaking is silly, the mechanics are right the tactics are wrong. I think more fighting classes (non mage classes) should figure out ways of getting through the mage's arcane abilities. I dont want to say the solution is to "drink more potions" that response seems old and worn. But i think that there are combinations out there that someone must have found. If so what types of potion do fighting classes use to go up against mages? whoever has the answers should post a forum on how to fight against mages. That simple.

Maybe the devs can create magical items for fighting classes to use that add some buffs. Not major buffs but just minor ones like bull's strength or bless. Maybe some scrolls or magic scarabs that have charges of spells in them. Why is this solution lucrative? Well for one, characters that dont use magic would be able to even out the tables with boosted stats. Secondly, this solution doesn't require the devs to rework the magic system or rest system. Also, i dont think that fighting classes wouldn't use magic items, even if they were Role playing their character. I think there are probably fighter who would prefer not to use magic items, but that doesn't mean it cant be done. Afterall this is a magical world.

[Æ]

I would love to use magic items, but can't use them like you could in NS3, they're more class restricted, and especially now with having to equip any spell charge item you use, it's even more limited what magic a fighter can use