Enhanced Bg undead summons

Wolfarus · Post by **Wolfarus** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:25 pm

As its been stated in other threads, the only "big" advantage there is to being a BG is the eventual Doom knight and black devil summons you get.

The rest of his abilities are either moderate (cause crit wounds, saving throw bonus from cha) or neglig. (contagion, smite good)

So the main point for a BG is his summons. Fine, but....A bg is a DECENT substitute for fighter, and very poor in comparion to cleric spells.

How about something other then generic skeleton / zombie for his undead summons? That way the other half of his summons make up for the rest of his small abilities. Especially considering if he took for the undead buffing domain / feats.

Say :

Bg lvls 3-6 : standard undead
7-9 : Vampire warrior (skeleton) / Mummy (zombie)
10-13 : Frozen skeleton warrior or monk / Greater mummy (zombie)

If the dev's feel adding better undead beyond that wont unbalance him, maybe from then on his skeleton summons could be that giant one with the bat wings (cant remember its name) and for his zombie type, something along the lines of what you'd get if you had the epic mummy dust? (so a BG could get at least 1 caster-ish type of summons, instead of all tank types)

Daltian · Post by **Daltian** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:35 am

I don't think BG needs improvement of his summon. Its more then good as it is.

Wolfarus · Post by **Wolfarus** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:42 am

Im just saying that if the main advantage to a BG, if built right, is his summons then both sets of summons should reflect this. As it stands right now, the skeleton / zombie dont change at all, and their damage for mobs past lvl 8 is laughable. All they are currently is a light (and i do mean light, even being lvl 21+ equiv. summons they dont last longer then 2 mins if being attacked by more then 2 efreets) meat shield subsitute.

Post by **Binkyuk** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:42 am

i'm confused. the BG has 2 summons, one is a lower level ability and so is less good than the better one. so use the better one once you get it, a whole 2 class levels later.
there are dozens of examples of this. you may as well ask for Summon II to be improved because Summon VI is so much better.

Charles I · Post by **Charles I** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:17 am

Blackguards are not clerics nor are they necromancers. Bg should not receive an undead for a summon but a variety of demons or devils. There are some already in the system such as the ones near Mezzoloth. These could be scaled or certain ones made available at different levels. They should also receive the benefits of conjuration focus just like other summons. They could be used to fill the gaps and still keep the pit fiend, doom knight and black devil. Possible conflict would be PM wanting something to fill in their gaps between 10 to 20 and 20 to 30.

Wolfarus · Post by **Wolfarus** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:56 am

Binkyuk wrote:i'm confused. the BG has 2 summons, one is a lower level ability and so is less good than the better one. so use the better one once you get it, a whole 2 class levels later.
there are dozens of examples of this. you may as well ask for Summon II to be improved because Summon VI is so much better.

Except for the name and look, the "fiend" summons (which is supposed to be a planar-type, right? it still says "undead" under its description, and can be targeted accordingly) is the same potency as the BG's zombie / skeleton. At least until you can get past lvl 15 bg and get your epic fiend feat.

And besides the fact that the fiend summons is on a timer. Granted its a fairly long running timer, as summons go but its not a "with you until killed" thing like the undead are. And if yer in a long drawn out battle, having your only real advantage disapear on you can be fatal and unnessary.

And as i said origionally, for those of us who plan a cleric lvl or 2, plus necro focus feats into our BG build, would be nice to get something more then a 3/4 offensively-useless undead-meat shield for the effort.

Post by **Binkyuk** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:10 pm

well, you can campaign to get the BG fiend turned into a planar if you like, but i suspect you'll be shooting yourself in the foot as it's about the only use out there for the BG's Inflict spells.

kingfatzo · Post by **kingfatzo** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:21 pm

Binkyuk wrote:well, you can campaign to get the BG fiend turned into a planar if you like, but i suspect you'll be shooting yourself in the foot as it's about the only use out there for the BG's Inflict spells.

aye i agree. i dont think that would be the smartest idea in the world.

Carnaugh · Post by **Carnaugh** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:58 am

Too bad you can't target your Summons with your Inflict spells (PvP-Party restriction), then that idea might actually be useful...

The Doom Knight should be undead (as it is). I haven't seen the Black Devil yet, I should hope its Planar (Outsider) rather then Undead.

Does anyone have any screen shots of the Black Devil? And what level/feats you have (to get it)?

Also does anyone know the exact bonus given by Death/Evil Domains to Undead/Planar summons. I was hoping it was significant, but I'm suspecting its only like +1 to physical stats (which is generally useless unless you buff their stats).

Alkapwn · Post by **Alkapwn** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:24 am

Undead type.
BTW I believe your missing 2 of the greatest feats a BG can get. Divine Shield & Divine Might. The charisma is worth it.

Daedalus · Post by **Daedalus** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:48 pm

Yeah but BG are stuck with the +10 cap

(is this for both divines or just one of em?)