HIPS

Kromix · Post by **Kromix** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:47 pm

thank you

get some spot... like this

<- spot face and use detect

Falazure- · Post by **Falazure-** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:55 pm

Its funny,whenever somone cant beat something or somone,immediately it needs to be nerfed.I've never had a problem pvp'ing a shadowdancer,just max out spot whenever possible etc,learn to use detect mode,and DO NOT sit still for a hipster to pound on you.If you cant see them,dont expect to beat them.

watchwood · Post by **watchwood** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:11 pm

Better then detect mode - Be an elf.

Kromix · Post by **Kromix** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:35 pm

and keep moving, a hasted hipsed char is slower than a non hasted runing char...

CrazyJ · Post by **CrazyJ** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:05 pm

Classes: Arcane Archer, Assassin, Champion of Torm, Dwarven Defender, Red Dragon Disciple, Shadowdancer, Ranger, Rogue, Shifter, Weapon Master

Meaning that unless you use a PRC or are a rogue or ranger, you have a max of TWENTY spot. Unless you are wis-based, you don't have a significant boost to your Spot, whereas SDs are normally dexers, and do therefore normally have about +10 or so to hide/ms from their dex. Add in another +10 or so on the SD side from various spells (camo, one with the land, etc).... and what's to compensate on the Spot side? Naught but True Sight or See Invisibility, which require either certain classes or items with limited uses.

A pure Fighter with Wis 16 (base 10 + ammy of ice) will have a Spot of 23 at level 40. If he puts on a winged helm and activates True Seeing, his spot is now 43. What's the level 40 Hipster's Hide? 40+10 (dex 30, which is low for a 40) + 10 (spells) + 5 (items) = 65. And I'm probably understating the spell and item side of thing.

Sorry, Spot is not a solution to this exploit.

whenever somone cant beat something or somone

Can't beat, I don't have a problem with... spells, dr, concealment, ac, etc. do that. Can't even TARGET, I do have a problem with.

Kromix · Post by **Kromix** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:42 pm

did you forget about listen? plus there are helms with spot... and a feat called skill focus spot/listen and epic ones too... you want everything in a tray handed to you huh... plus there are spells that will decrease the SDer's hide and move silent, now you havent done your home work and turn in a half asses job... you get an F

Kromix · Post by **Kromix** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:45 pm

CrazyJ wrote:

Can't even TARGET, I do have a problem with.

you dont have to target a SDer to beat him...

Falazure- · Post by **Falazure-** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:50 pm

exactly,every class has a weakness,shadowdancers get beat easily,in most cases,by cleric,druids,dragons etc.but they beat classes who cant get much spot/listen easy,thats where balance comes in,every class cant have everything.

Core · Post by **Core** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:51 pm

Ya lets all take epic skill focus spot....

MLoki · Post by **MLoki** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:40 am

Kromix wrote:did you forget about listen? plus there are helms with spot... and a feat called skill focus spot/listen and epic ones too... you want everything in a tray handed to you huh... plus there are spells that will decrease the SDer's hide and move silent, now you havent done your home work and turn in a half asses job... you get an F

Actually for every feat or item you can take that gives a bonus to Spot or Listen thier is an equal bonus to Hide as well. I personally play SDs and think that they are somewhat abusive. We aren't talking about taking away the Hide ability just restricting it's use somewhat. I personally think it would be more challenging to play a SD if you could only Hide once every other round. It would mean that others would have a small window of opportunity to target the SD and also make it that the SD couldn't just spam hide until it worked. They would actually have to wait another round before trying again meaning they might actually have to stick it out and fight for a bit or run off somewhere else until they could hide again. I am not sure if this is even possible as the DMs said previously but if the skill could be limited in uses/round then it may make the difference.

MLoki

Falazure- · Post by **Falazure-** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:23 pm

Mloki. ok if we were to restrict the hide the way you said, how long do you think a SD will last against a fighter or mage or anyone for that matter. All it takes is that one round and they are dead. its not abusive and its not an exploit. trust me if the Dms were to do what you said then no one would be using SDs or rogue type characters. the only time anyone uses a rogue now is if he has a SD skill other than that they are pointless to use. I dont know what the big fuss is. Alot of ppl are not having trouble with the Sd and others are. Its just like some ppl has trouble with mages or dragons and others dont. just because someone is not able to beat a certain class does not mean that the class should be changed. it just means you have a weakness just like every other class.

Post by **Binkyuk** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:19 pm

Falazure- wrote:All it takes is that one round and they are dead.

Then frankly you build rubbish SDs. Precisely how is a fighter going to kill you in one round, bearing in mind that you will have unhidden 15' away, can run in the other direction and will probably have epic dodge? What mage spell kills in one round without allowing a save?
It's true that SDs can't go head to head with other classes on their own terms, but they're far from helpless if they're caught unhidden.

MasterYoda · Post by **MasterYoda** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:02 pm

Binkyuk wrote:
Falazure- wrote:All it takes is that one round and they are dead.

Then frankly you build rubbish SDs. Precisely how is a fighter going to kill you in one round, bearing in mind that you will have unhidden 15' away, can run in the other direction and will probably have epic dodge? What mage spell kills in one round without allowing a save?
It's true that SDs can't go head to head with other classes on their own terms, but they're far from helpless if they're caught unhidden.

bigsbies anyone?

and seriously... crazyj aren't u a shifter? dragonshaoe OWNS shifter.

and for the casting classes with no spot. get a epic puppy and span the area with spells.

mloki

if ur going to take away a key element to a build u need to take everything away.

bard 1 sone a hour.
monk 1 stunning fist every other round.
pali one smite every other round.
mage one spell every other round.

ow wait those are classes that can be beaten by any nabbler that comes along. they done need to be nerfed.

damn people stop turning the build progression into a damn witch hunt.

some builds r gonna beat u oh well deal with it and life goes on.

CrazyJ · Post by **CrazyJ** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:11 pm

crazyj aren't u a shifter? dragonshaoe OWNS shifter.

I don't use the shifter right now since the crashing is actually worse while they're trying to fix it.

My highest-level active atm is a level 28 pure monk.

MasterYoda · Post by **MasterYoda** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:54 pm

CrazyJ wrote:
crazyj aren't u a shifter? dragonshaoe OWNS shifter.
I don't use the shifter right now since the crashing is actually worse while they're trying to fix it.

My highest-level active atm is a level 28 pure monk.

ok so how r u going to play a char that everyon is screaming about to get fixed since pure they suck now, and then complain about a weakness.

that's redundant.

now if u were playing a power build for 1 I don't think hipsers would be a problem but since u chose a pure class build with no spot that's your own fault.

noone said u have to be monk or u can't multi class. that's all your own choosing.

on the same level by building pure u will have weaknesses. that's what multiclassing does. it helps eliminate weaknesses.

wiz/rouge higher ac and spot.

monk/cleric helps ab and damage

fighter/cleric buffs tank

I mean if ur going to build a pure class especially one with no spot how are u going to complain about something u clearly have controll over?.

on another note for all the gear with +x to spot and there is a equal one with +x to hide ... I don't understand ur reasoning.

if a hipser dedicates himself to hiding ie skill focous hide, epic hide, maxing move silently and hide then they should get a slight advantage.

and if a char focouses in ANTI hide then he will have just as much spot as the hipsers. and in some cases where the anti hipsers get bonouses to spot hipsers get owned.

example.

we will say druid/rouge/sd
lvl 40

bse+skillfocus+epicskill+gear+vinemine+onewithland+otherbuff.

43+3+10+10+10+4+4(we will say he's in the forest )+15 we will say he has 40 dex.

99 hide. that's pretty god for a hipser.oops almost forgot the +8 from gear.

107 hide. lvl 40.

now lets go devoted spotter.

lets say wiz/rouge

intel+base+skillfocus+epic skill focous + spells + gear.

15+43+3+10+20 (truesight)+10(clarvoince)+8

so now that's 109

OMG the spotter has more spot !

and he's a elf !!!

see if u commit yer self u should see him.

if not it should be a challenge.

wow I hate it when I'm right.