More arrows!

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:25 pm

Great, so they'll get their caster buddies to make them some scrolls and wands? Or they can use all these burning hands wands, or use the amazing scrolls that can be found at the mid-low lvls. If things stay the same at lvl40, i'd expect an AA to be able to use some fireball wands. wow.

And i've never found an item yet with per day spells on it. Maybe there are some, *shrug*, but at this rate, they must either be uber and heinous and rare, or nonexistent.

sep caldessian · Post by **sep caldessian** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:31 pm

AndrewCarr wrote:Great, so they'll get their caster buddies to make them some scrolls and wands? Or they can use all these burning hands wands, or use the amazing scrolls that can be found at the mid-low lvls. If things stay the same at lvl40, i'd expect an AA to be able to use some fireball wands. wow.

And i've never found an item yet with per day spells on it. Maybe there are some, *shrug*, but at this rate, they must either be uber and heinous and rare, or nonexistent.

well there are charged items, which are fairly cheap to buy.

AAs have to have an arcane class associated with them, and thus makes them eligible for arcane crafting, which in turn creates wands and rods with spells to use as a backup... if and when the AA meets a foe that absorbs too much piercing damage for the AAs enchanted arrows to handle.

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:39 pm

Yes, i realize they can craft. But who takes many caster levels in their AA builds? If they do, it will make them a gimp archer and a gimp caster, with the ability to use some decent level spells. As it is, they may get 2 first lvl bard spells, 3 second level sorc spells, or 2 second lvl wizard spells per day. This is completely useless unless they want to make the most basic items. That's why they would need a caster alt or friend. And to be effective no class should have to rely on another. Tanks can solo, casters can solo. They are still effective this way. An AA if he tries to solo and encounters pierce resist mobs either is gimped because he can't dmg it much with a bow, gimped because he can't hardly dmg it at all due to low AA levels and low wiz/sorc/bard lvls, or can dmg it because he has specialized in bow and relied on other characters for supporting a large weakness. They just need to be able to do decently in most situations(not 10v1 obviously) that other classes can do well in. Can the rogue still kill undead? Yes, umd on most servers does it, and high ac and dodging abilities can do it on this one. It won't be the best situation, but the rogue can still do decently well. The AA on the other hand is completely ruined by a single simple thing, or has to rely on others constantly so that they aren't gimp.

sep caldessian · Post by **sep caldessian** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:45 pm

well if you have a build that is a one trick pony (AA with only the bare minimum of other levels) then thats the trade off. you will shine in some areas and be horrendous in others.

if you want a well rounded build, then you have to accept that you cant be the best in one area because your skills are spread thinner across more areas.

i have never EVER had a problem soloing my AA in ANY mod.

once again it comes down to the tactics you employ.

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:49 pm

*sigh* i still can't understand how you can call an AA a one trick pony.

They have bows as primaries
i'd go rapiers or a melee weapon as secondary(alrdy been discussed)
and then there's umd for defense and debuffing. possibly offense.

But in ns4 the bow can be negated by pierce resist, which is common. With this gone then rapiers are gone as well, and the only way to get around that is spend a horrenous amount of feats for kukris or use crappy handaxes or maybe a bludeoning weapon.

And umd has problems as i talked about before because there just aren't enough magic devices to use

So this 3 trick pony is ruined in ns4 by a single thing, which shouldn't be the case imo.

sep caldessian · Post by **sep caldessian** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:53 pm

AndrewCarr wrote:*sigh* i still can't understand how you can call an AA a one trick pony.

They have bows as primaries
i'd go rapiers or a melee weapon as secondary(alrdy been discussed)
and then there's umd for defense and debuffing. possibly offense.

But in ns4 the bow can be negated by pierce resist, which is common. With this gone then rapiers are gone as well, and the only way to get around that is spend a horrenous amount of feats for kukris or use crappy handaxes or maybe a bludeoning weapon.

And umd has problems as i talked about before because there just aren't enough magic devices to use

So this 3 trick pony is ruined in ns4 by a single thing, which shouldn't be the case imo.

ok.

so you figure out that the foe has pierce resist.

1. put the bow away.

2. grab a handaxe or a mace and hit them.

piercing resistance is negated.

where the problem with that?

Gil-Este · Post by **Gil-Este** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:57 pm

use a short sword...its finessable and slashing. a one trick pony is a person who is good as long as they don't have to adapt to conditions other than those they planned for...hence someone who focuses everything they have on piercing is going to be trumped by...*ding ding ding* piercing resists. if you don't want to close to melee, pull out a sling.

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:04 pm

Remember, I just spent all my feats on making sure I can use magic items, the bow, and making sure i can have will/fort/ref saves....I don't know how to use an axe!

Yeah...thought so.... it doesn't make sense. In order to hurt the rockbiter I pull out.... MY SLING!!!!! which of course does 1d6 damage, and even though the rock monster is cr 6 and I have 30 more hit points...he's hitting me at 20 per hit and I'm hitting him at....wait for it.....5 per round.....isn't that fun! :p Nope, its not.... but oh well it really goes with the RP theme and low lvl magic thing thats going on. Okay now im just being an arse, so i'll stop, but seriously, its an archer, they use arrows, why should they have to use anything diferently against enemies? Did legolas use a sword against the cave troll? (NO he stabbed the troll with an arrow!! EEWW gross!

)

Gil-Este · Post by **Gil-Este** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:07 pm

1) legolas can do whatever he wants

2) he made a called shot to a specific area of the troll (forget which region, head, eye, or something) giving him a -4 on his attack roll. he was also using a makeshift melee weapon, giving him another -4 on his attack roll. so altogether he rolled high, killed the troll, and we now have the movie

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:16 pm

Yeah...whatever Im legolas...B****

Thats just childish, but its supposed to be funny not serious

Gil-Este · Post by **Gil-Este** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:21 pm

ATI wrote:its an archer, they use arrows, why should they have to use anything diferently against enemies?

we are knights. we charge on horseback. why should we do differently against pikemen?

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:29 pm

A hahahaha, come on, if your a knight you should be smarter than that and get the archers to kill the pikemen.

But there is a problem.... No horse back riding in the game

No Knights

No pikemen, so the example doesn't pertain to NS4. And as you can see in British history The knights didn't change their tactics ( a lot of knights died...but the British won!) So does that mean I win?

mumoogaipan · Post by **mumoogaipan** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:29 pm

The thing is, characters who are built to use a certain weapon i.e. Arcane ARCHER should be able to use his archery ability and use bows and crossbows. Also, think of it this way ask a palemaster to cast heal spells in the middle of a fight. That doesnt make any sense, the palemaster is a death mage. Cmon now. Lets not get our classes jobs out of order. Fighters are supposed to fight and will continue to do so until the PrC into a spell caster. And spell casters will never fight melee until they suddenly decide to PrC into fighting classes. Likewise, the archers should use archery equipment not a sling.

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:48 pm

Well ive seen mages fight melee.....wasnt pretty sorc looked like this when he finished

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:27 pm

Gil-Este wrote:use a short sword...its finessable and slashing. a one trick pony is a person who is good as long as they don't have to adapt to conditions other than those they planned for...hence someone who focuses everything they have on piercing is going to be trumped by...*ding ding ding* piercing resists. if you don't want to close to melee, pull out a sling.

s sword is finesse but listed as pierceing in the toolset.