Just curious
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Ryddwillow
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Just curious
I have seen a lvl 20 w/ 3 lvls of rogue using umd take down a 31 lvl mage by casting a grasping hand and then using kd? heh? something is not right here. I gave up on my mage but this is a lil funny to me.
Hmm.. You could call it 'balance', the rogue levels add some of what a mage can do from scroll/staff but; slower, and at a crafting cost to their mage - BB scrolls aren't cheap to make!
Also, if you don't take enough UMD, you can have scrolls fizzle-out.
It would be a whole different game without skill dumping! My cheesy PvP toons wouldn't be quite so powerful without it.
Also, if you don't take enough UMD, you can have scrolls fizzle-out.
It would be a whole different game without skill dumping! My cheesy PvP toons wouldn't be quite so powerful without it.
Re: Just curious
must be a pretty crappy mage thenRyddwillow wrote:I have seen a lvl 20 w/ 3 lvls of rogue using umd take down a 31 lvl mage by casting a grasping hand and then using kd? heh? something is not right here. I gave up on my mage but this is a lil funny to me.
Fatzo
Resident Glutton and Hand of the Legendary Brethren
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Resident Glutton and Hand of the Legendary Brethren
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This sounds like a bit of dumb luck as well, since the changes to Bigsby spells apply to those who use scrolls as well... they use the caster level of the scrolls to determine the AB to hit their targets and then use Concentration/Spellcraft, etc, of the PC using the scroll to determine the necessary opposition checks, which means that mage probably had some pretty lousy skills to start with, or a Rogue might have a hard time keeping them down. It'd be a bit easier with a Bard, as they get Conc/SC as class skills due to their own casting status.
~DM Yonwe
Lolth - Goddess of the Drow
Velsharoon - God of Undeath
Lolth - Goddess of the Drow
Velsharoon - God of Undeath
Mages have a hard time fighting against foes appearing out of nowhere. If you catch a mage without his buffs, it is possible for an apparently weaker character to kill him or her.
One Mantle would have changed the outcome of this fight. If it is a wizard it could be that he didn't have the right spells stored, or some depleted, if it is a sorcerer, the bad choice of spells could bring doom to every build.
As you all should know, this game isn't much about balance. You can't compare one class resp. build to another, simply because some are better in PVP and others in PVM. And some classes resp. builds don't even help much in one or another. Although even a "crappy" builded mage should prevail over the mentioned character - tainted by a splash of rogue - with so many seasons in between.
One Mantle would have changed the outcome of this fight. If it is a wizard it could be that he didn't have the right spells stored, or some depleted, if it is a sorcerer, the bad choice of spells could bring doom to every build.
As you all should know, this game isn't much about balance. You can't compare one class resp. build to another, simply because some are better in PVP and others in PVM. And some classes resp. builds don't even help much in one or another. Although even a "crappy" builded mage should prevail over the mentioned character - tainted by a splash of rogue - with so many seasons in between.
it depends on who it is 
Fatzo
Resident Glutton and Hand of the Legendary Brethren
http://thelegendarybrethren.forumsplace.com/
http://brethren.mygameguild.com/main.asp
Resident Glutton and Hand of the Legendary Brethren
http://thelegendarybrethren.forumsplace.com/
http://brethren.mygameguild.com/main.asp
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Death Dealer1
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rouge/assassin lvls should count like mage lvls when casting off scrolls in all respects of dc's and damage's. this would prevent ppl from the skill pt dumping super rogue cheese. as they would have to invest more rogue lvls into their builds for the umd to be worth it.
if i didn't do it...someone else would have.
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PeregrineV
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The problem with trying to "fix" the skill point dumping problem is that there are no half points as there should be. Instead, Bioware makes it cost two skill points to raise a cross-class skill by one, and reduced the maximum points that cross class skills can have by half. The biggest problem is this maximum that Bioware introduced. Any "fix" would force the player to put skill points into skills they might not want whenever a skill is above this maximum.
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Death Dealer1
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we can keep the skill pt dumping....because deputy dog likes it like that 
. how about we figure a way to make scrolls a double check?
much like some of the newer spell modifications scrolls could be put the the same rigors. a successful UMD check lets you use the scroll then upon casting it your caster lvl is checked. for casters, rogues, assassins this would be how many lvls in that class you are. the more of these lvls the more adept you are at making the spell more powerful.
doing it this way clears up 2 problems faced....
1. it lets us continue the almighty skill dump on lvls to cheese out our builds at will so that players are happy.
2. it allows the devs to bring in umd users to a more "balanced" playing field that we are seeking for this mod. after all, this also adds the the pure class benefits of playing these classes, hence making them more desirable builds.
. how about we figure a way to make scrolls a double check?much like some of the newer spell modifications scrolls could be put the the same rigors. a successful UMD check lets you use the scroll then upon casting it your caster lvl is checked. for casters, rogues, assassins this would be how many lvls in that class you are. the more of these lvls the more adept you are at making the spell more powerful.
doing it this way clears up 2 problems faced....
1. it lets us continue the almighty skill dump on lvls to cheese out our builds at will so that players are happy.
2. it allows the devs to bring in umd users to a more "balanced" playing field that we are seeking for this mod. after all, this also adds the the pure class benefits of playing these classes, hence making them more desirable builds.
if i didn't do it...someone else would have.
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P. Fricebottle
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I really don't see the problem with UMD and scrolls. When a mage uses a spell, all they do is have to rest or use another slotted one. When rogues or bards use a scroll with UMD, its a one-time-only thing. So if they use a bigsby scroll, theres not much of a chance they'll be able to cast it again. Unless of course they have a mage of their own/mage friend creating scrolls for them, but I don't know many who would waste that many gold/xp on scrolls for a rogue.