Char Power Builds and what to do ?

[YukonCornelious]

OK here is my question

I'm kinda new to NS4 but not NWN. I mostly like the balance on this server but I have noticed some crazy stuff going on here.

For one I was in a party of (3) players myself and two others, Classes below

AA level 29
Sorc Level 29
Bar Level 28

A solo shifter happened on to our party who claimed to be level 30 also.

This guy proceeded to try and PK our party and I MUST say he owned us.... This is not to complain or wine and dine. I just would like to know how a single char the same level can so dominate a party like ours. I know he was in Kobald form and HIPS is tough but for the LOVE ,I have a 36 spot with a 46 + attack Base with my AA and I had a TOUGH time hitting him. He almost took us all out until he gave up and called a time out. But PLZ throw me a bone and let me know what is going on. Thanks!!!!

Like I said I don't want to hear that I'm complaining, I'm not trying to. I'm looking for some insight. Could it be his gear but that would be impressive as I have a lot of +5 gear myself, anyway thanks for any light you can shine on this subject and please let me know.

Thanks

[YukonCornelious]

The other catch to this is that I have been looking at the forum here and it seems to indicate that the Shifter is not as strong of a build as I would think from my encounter. So are we just making sucky builds or what? When we party with others and fight mobs my Chars seem to do well and I have been the last man standing a few times. So what is the real deal what is it that I'm missing. Is there some cheeky build I should know of or is it we just had 5 minutes of bad rolls?

[CrazyJ]

Gran Shifter maybe? He's the only other Epic shifter I've run across on the server... there are not many of us.

He's got a high Wis from being druid/shifter, but he's taken some Monk levels... so he will have a very good (50+) ac. Limited choices due to not having Epic feat-based shapes (undead/dragon/etc). Shifter is powerful but beatable. My bet is that you were not prepared for him... probably never got fully buffed?

33 Hide (at level 30) + 5 from gear + at least 15 from Epic Commando + small size + One With the Land = Hide skill of somewhere on the far side of 50.

[Mr. O'Dearly]

AA, sorc, bard...

wheres the tank?

The kobold can hips from sorcs spells.

The arcane archer... who knows there coulda been a lot of factors to give the shifter an edge.

Unless the bard had some serious constitution or multiclassed hes not gonna have a whole lot of hp. The bard wouldve been the greatest advantage against him. I do hope he sang for the skill bonus. Then add curse song for the negative skill bonus. You shouldve been able to spot or hear the kobold pretty easily if you had and skill points.

If he was an experienced shifter, especially if hes experienced with hips I wouldn't be surprised in the right circumstances. It mostly rests with how well the bard played.

[Death Dealer1]

area of effect non dodgeable spells would have killed that little lizard lover senseless. next time you fight a hipster no matter who they are...start casting horrids around and he'll get the point. neg energy burst is another good one to make them not like you.

[Celorn]

AA, sorc, bard...
Unless the bard had some serious constitution or multiclassed hes not gonna have a whole lot of hp. The bard wouldve been the greatest advantage against him. I do hope he sang for the skill bonus. Then add curse song for the negative skill bonus. You shouldve been able to spot or hear the kobold pretty easily if you had and skill points.

If he was an experienced shifter, especially if hes experienced with hips I wouldn't be surprised in the right circumstances. It mostly rests with how well the bard played.

^--There's Denwego who was around lvl34 druid/shifty last time I saw him on. Pre-wipe I had some difficulty seeing that one when he was fully buffed in kobold form with my lvl39 bard that could get over 100 listen with spells and song! But for the most part, bards can detect fairly well with amplify+clair. spells, song and a maxxed-out listen.--v

Gran Shifter maybe? He's the only other Epic shifter I've run across on the server... there are not many of us.

He's got a high Wis from being druid/shifter, but he's taken some Monk levels... so he will have a very good (50+) ac. Limited choices due to not having Epic feat-based shapes (undead/dragon/etc). Shifter is powerful but beatable. My bet is that you were not prepared for him... probably never got fully buffed?

33 Hide (at level 30) + 5 from gear + at least 15 from Epic Commando + small size + One With the Land = Hide skill of somewhere on the far side of 50.

-edited to remove confusion-

A ghostwise halfling could get much higher hide with the species ability, and +5 from gear?! More like +20 (+7+7+6---cloak, robe, boots, more with those illusive rings) plus the DEX bonus adds to hide and ms... Ie: my non-halfling shadowdancer at lvl31 has over 70 hide, and that's before any buffs to increase it further...

But as for the initial comment of 1 build beating multiple opponents near your level even, I've done it myself many times... It's as much how well you play your character as the strength of the build, or how much great gear you have...

And for sure -- some classes are stronger than others, and have more AoE abilities to combat multiple enemies, and some builds don't realize their full potential until very late levels.

AND remember that if someone is hunting YOU, THEY have the advantage of surprise, pre-planning the attack based on your class weaknesses, and attacking when you're weakest, so it's not exactly a fair fight most of the time (yet they brag and brag about it sometimes).

[CrazyJ]

You're a bit off, for one there's no way it was anything other than a Druid/Shifter -- if you take any other class, you should not be able to take or use the epic shapes... possibly the non epic kobold could be used tho, but don't know how effective it would be?

My understanding of the rules is that you do not get the Epic FEAT shapes--Undead, Outsider, Golem, Dragon... but that you do get the normal epic upgrades (Epic Kobold Commando, Epic Drider, etc.).

More like +20 (+7+7+6---cloak, robe, boots, more with those illusive rings) plus the DEX bonus adds to hide and ms.

Never really played a hipser so I was just guessing.

[Metis]

Correct you can use any shifter that does not require a feat if you multiclass, anything besides the 4 categories you listed.

[Thorac]

well from what i have seen to answer the very first question WELCOME to NS .Some of the players here have been at PvP for years and that is what they do my suggestion is get your party and hunt the little bugger into the ground .

[MasterYoda]

as c-lorn said.

there are tons of builds that are crazy good. some are amazing pvm .... others r good pvp.

the bigest thing also like he said I how u play ur char. allso how there built. if u know all ur chars strs and weakneses then u have a better chance of pking someone.

Example.

I was a level 22 sorc pre wipe and caught evil incarnate lvl 30 plus once and beat him while he was un buffed. this is a perfect example of a hunting scenario. fully buffed and knowing I was coming for him he should have smashed me.

also I have seen certain builds solo just about every mob in the game but get owned by a pker 8 lvls below him in a actuall duel.

and a lot of builds have builds thAt specifically beat them.

it ultimatly comes down to what u know ur build does and more imporntantly what it CAN'T do

[Celorn]

My understanding of the rules is that you do not get the Epic FEAT shapes--Undead, Outsider, Golem, Dragon... but that you do get the normal epic upgrades (Epic Kobold Commando, Epic Drider, etc.).

DOH! yeah.. think that's right... it's been so long, the last shifter I made was on NS3 like 2 years ago...

[Umpa]

If you are depending on spot working you will need to make a build 60+ in points spot or listen, to even have a chance on most SD builds that are 30+. I'm assuming your talking about dewengo, who has a very high buffed SD on kobold hide/ms skill.

There are other methods, buffing up an epic balor, or solar might solve your problems also.

AE spells with no reflex save helps also.

You really have to look for high spot/listen items if your going to use it in PVP.

[YukonCornelious]

First I wanted to clarify my party did have a tank He was a barabarian not the Bard as mistaken.

But I will have to work on how to deal better with those sneaky hiders in the shadows.

You all have given me good input and I'll keep an extra eye open from now on. I was just surprised at how good that build was...

Thanks

Good hunting

[DeputyDog]

Best way to deal with them is knock them down and finish em off.

Finger of death works well too:)

[Celorn]

Best way to deal with them is knock them down and finish em off.

Finger of death works well too:)

yes, but you still need to SEE them to KD or FoD them... and a SD that knows what they are doing, will not let you lock-on to them. AoE spells and summons with true seeing are still the best, or a nice build that has focus in spot or listen plus gear and buffs to boost it.

Now, ranged dancers are going to be a growing problem, now that BB from scroll doesn't cripple dex-builds like it used to, and arrows are basically infinite in supply.