interesting...
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Lorkar1
Agreed. my dexer has 60 AC @ lvl 28. All it takes is good planning and any build can be good here.P. Fricebottle wrote:Don't know what you're talking about, dex'ers can get some crazy good AC. The only thing they're relly missing out on is the +8 from Full Plate (hehe that rhymed), which they make up for with Tumble and Dex Armor Bonus. More than often they have higher AC then others.Elagneros wrote:dexers to make up for the low AC.
Torm - God of Loyalty and Duty
Dunno about that allain.
Bards suck solo. Just do not have any defense.
Regardless-just tested out rangers favored enemy.
Lvl 40 ranger with 14 favored enemies.
Against one of his favored enemies with a stock longbow and arrows he averaged 10-17 points of damage. Since longbows do 1d8 damage thats 1d8 + 9. Which means favored enemy bonus caps at 9, not 14.
also the bonus is just to damage, spot, listen and taunt checks...rangers dont get taunt as a class skill.
And a good workaround the favored enemy bonus is to have a ranger "trainer" who modifies his skin based on his favored enemy feats.
Also could add other bonuses when you did that...such as the damage modifier being something unsoakable or just make it where it adds to attack and damage instead of just to damage.
The spot and listen bonuses are great...unfortunately at a 9 cap its ehh.
You could modifiy his + to damage as magical or just make it an enhancement bonus.
For his skills, without modifying the class to have taunt as a class skill(which doesnt fit anywhere in the ranger description) maybe a bonus to disarms knockdowns or called shots vs his favored enemies.
As far as bards go...they already have a medium to do some major changes to---their bardsong. A -% to physical and elemental damages(as say a general -25% to all physical and all elemental resists) would make a pure 40th lvl bard very very wanted in all parties.
the flip side is a general increase in all resists or a flat /- resist to the bardsong of a pure 40th bard.
Since you can not do -s to flat resists i figured the % would be better.
And the kicker is not many people can actually play a bard well.
solates
Bards suck solo. Just do not have any defense.
Regardless-just tested out rangers favored enemy.
Lvl 40 ranger with 14 favored enemies.
Against one of his favored enemies with a stock longbow and arrows he averaged 10-17 points of damage. Since longbows do 1d8 damage thats 1d8 + 9. Which means favored enemy bonus caps at 9, not 14.
also the bonus is just to damage, spot, listen and taunt checks...rangers dont get taunt as a class skill.
And a good workaround the favored enemy bonus is to have a ranger "trainer" who modifies his skin based on his favored enemy feats.
Also could add other bonuses when you did that...such as the damage modifier being something unsoakable or just make it where it adds to attack and damage instead of just to damage.
The spot and listen bonuses are great...unfortunately at a 9 cap its ehh.
You could modifiy his + to damage as magical or just make it an enhancement bonus.
For his skills, without modifying the class to have taunt as a class skill(which doesnt fit anywhere in the ranger description) maybe a bonus to disarms knockdowns or called shots vs his favored enemies.
As far as bards go...they already have a medium to do some major changes to---their bardsong. A -% to physical and elemental damages(as say a general -25% to all physical and all elemental resists) would make a pure 40th lvl bard very very wanted in all parties.
the flip side is a general increase in all resists or a flat /- resist to the bardsong of a pure 40th bard.
Since you can not do -s to flat resists i figured the % would be better.
And the kicker is not many people can actually play a bard well.
solates
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P. Fricebottle
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Wow, Bard is one of the best classes in the game, with one of the best Skill selections out there. There's nothing keeping you from buying Heavy Armor Proficieny, or just using Medium armor. Medium Armor isn't great, but Bard's access to Haste/Bard/Tumble gives them high AC's regardless.
Their AB's and damage output are also respectable thanks their buffing abilities.
Bards only really suffer from Arcane Spell Failure, of which you can find a work around, and from having a D6 at level-up. The D6 hurts more than anything else in my opinion.
Their AB's and damage output are also respectable thanks their buffing abilities.
Bards only really suffer from Arcane Spell Failure, of which you can find a work around, and from having a D6 at level-up. The D6 hurts more than anything else in my opinion.
Serving NS4 proper as Lathander and Sleeth as Bahamut.
Yes, I'm a DM, but your build still sucks.
Yes, I'm a DM, but your build still sucks.
Bards are, without question I think, the most versatile class in NWN and make some of the best PvP melee builds to be found. It's possible, with the right gear and build, to make even a Strength-based Bard that has an undispellable effective AC in the low 70s. That, combined with Improved Invisibility and pretty good saving throws in all three categories, makes for a rather good defense. It's too bad you can't use more than one Prestige class in builds in NS4 because I developed a Bard build on another low magic server that would really rock here.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
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Nemesis Revised
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yeah but pure bard has only his skills spells and song really.
A bard who actually cares about his spell dcs will need to boost his charisma, and charisma also boosts his two primary skills, as well as his spells per day and spell dcs.
perform and taunt.
Yes you can have "strength" or "dex" build bard, but a bard who can burn 6 of your ac with taunt combined with 5 ac from song is going to make you turn into party chow. Unfortunately their own prowess in this case suckeths. They can hit you-but their damage is not all that. Their barbarian buddy however is going to make you into a splatter formerly known as a pc.
And if any of you ns3ers are from the old era my old bard could turn a fight with the phoenix crew into a 5 minute ordeal instead of a 30 minute "OMG OMG ITS ON ME!" party.
A pvp bard is only dangerous in a world where he can dispel your protections(ie lvl 40 bard with greater dispel or useing umd with a mords scroll) and using his mind affecting spells to make your day suck. But since bards have to do so many things okish a caster bard usually does not have the required feats.
A bard IS flexible. But if you want the actual bardsong effects maxed out you have to sacrifice the prestige classes and multiclass variants.
solates
A bard who actually cares about his spell dcs will need to boost his charisma, and charisma also boosts his two primary skills, as well as his spells per day and spell dcs.
perform and taunt.
Yes you can have "strength" or "dex" build bard, but a bard who can burn 6 of your ac with taunt combined with 5 ac from song is going to make you turn into party chow. Unfortunately their own prowess in this case suckeths. They can hit you-but their damage is not all that. Their barbarian buddy however is going to make you into a splatter formerly known as a pc.
And if any of you ns3ers are from the old era my old bard could turn a fight with the phoenix crew into a 5 minute ordeal instead of a 30 minute "OMG OMG ITS ON ME!" party.
A pvp bard is only dangerous in a world where he can dispel your protections(ie lvl 40 bard with greater dispel or useing umd with a mords scroll) and using his mind affecting spells to make your day suck. But since bards have to do so many things okish a caster bard usually does not have the required feats.
A bard IS flexible. But if you want the actual bardsong effects maxed out you have to sacrifice the prestige classes and multiclass variants.
solates
BINGO!!!DeputyDog wrote:just learn to party.
A bard is a must in a planar party . The difference is night and day.
I love my new bard so far, I can solo all sub-planar stuff without a sweat, and I've had PvP fights a few times solo versus multiple enemies, and won (mind you a single, higher level pm beat me, but I was caught unbuffed and fully loaded, so i couldn't swap shields to combat his cheesy rapier).
(*DEVs?*) Perhaps a max-level bard could have REGEN added to the bardsong?! And maybe some bonus SONIC damage??
My biggest problem with my bard in the planes is: if there's no cleric along with me, losing that extra +12 regen is noticable (I hate having to heal, even if it's only via. a ring).
I do have a pure bard for crafting MA gloves n'cloaks.... so perhaps I will one day level it to 40 if the PC bonuses go in. I have no problems playing a bard, and love the new song/curse!
In NS4 and apart from critical hits, the weapon you use has more to do with the damage you impart than anything else. A Strength-based Bard with Fighter ranks can impart a fair amount of damage - especially with one of the +25 or +30 weapons: +15 or so from Strength; +6 from WS, EWS; +8 or more from Song (if a decent Epic Bard); a better chance to crit others due to high AB and etc.Unfortunately their own prowess in this case suckeths. They can hit you-but their damage is not all that.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
I'm not particularly convinced of this. true, all weapons have big bonus physical damage, but this is very closely offset by the physical resistances you get on armour of the same level (provided it's the right type), so as long as your enemy is wearing a balanced set of gear the decider ends up once again being weapon base damage, str, weapon spesh, song, sneaks, etc.havelot wrote:In NS4 and apart from critical hits, the weapon you use has more to do with the damage you impart than anything else.