Neutered wolves?

kgb · Post by **kgb** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:48 am

I would also like to support the level limit on FD. I think the real reason behind the CR reduction was as mentioned levelling was too quick when high level chars Mid teens and up helped lowbies level by getting wolves down to badly wounded or near death. Some of the people posting on this thread have done so themselves.

A level limit would stop this practice dead in its tracks and the logic of this is irrefutable!

Gumppy · Post by **Gumppy** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:35 am

Ok now we are getting feedback from a couple of ppl.

Let me say Kgb there has hit the nail on the head on 2 points

A i see him on regularly at the same times, my guess is he is from the southern hemisphere like me there are always about 10 ppl on at the times normal working ppl in the southern hempisohere who still have a life - or a family play, 20 max. Finding a party is excrusiatingly difficult. BTW irealise there are other southern hemi ppl on when north hemi ppl are on hours at a time but like i said very hard for working southerners to find parties.

B Orcs are more difficult then gargoyles even lmao yet u get easy 100 + for gargoyles at like lvl 4, 5, 6, hey ive done em with a 2nd lvl halfogre - im sure they werent "designed" as it were for that either ??

oh the other thing is this - lets get some feedback on this question - where the BEEP are rogues and monks supposed to lvl now ?? monks are great mid to high lvl but ac and ab are some of the worst at these lvls same with a rogue in FD they had a fighting chance most without a shield so still taking damage there .

Yes im prepared for all the party up its not a solo mod SEE POINT A above.

Also some ppl prefer to stay away from guilds and affiliated toons they dont wanna get involved :

( nothing worse then beeing smashed cause your partied with a kst or brethren etc ), and there not into the 7 8 9 10 + ppl parties i see especially if your running a 800 mhz box with dial up - LAggy and crashy Darn i need a NEW box and broad band from santa - anyone ??

CrazyJ · Post by **CrazyJ** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:29 pm

The whole Ash Mountain area seems pretty empty. Maybe add some CR 15-18 stuff there? Bump all the hellish presence in the area up some.

Elagneros · Post by **Elagneros** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:08 pm

CrazyJ wrote:Yeah, but try getting a party for that. Like I said, try even FINDING some of them? After about 20 minutes looking for Niragawa, knowing to within 4 zones wher they were, I gave up. Haven't tried again.

Niragawa are time dependant in several zones. There are also at least two places where I believe they appear regardlerss of time.

Elagneros · Post by **Elagneros** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:20 pm

DeputyDog wrote: I would rather see other areas tweaked, so get out there, give us good solid testing/feedback about other areas at what level and in groups and we will tweak them as need be. Usually this involves me taking a char or a party and verifying what needs done.(As was done in the planes recently) Its a big world, I cant hit every corner:)

The whole Old Wyrm Road could be tweaked a bit. It's not near any city, and the mobs that load there in many cases except for the Bottomless Pit and the red dragons (which only appear in 2 spots) are usually lower CR and easier to defeat than the mobs in the zones leading to it. For example, the west end of the Wyrm Road has nothing but stuff like lions and bears, but to get to that zone, you have to pass through either the Ash Mountains which is infested with demons and baby dragons, or the Bottomless Pit, which has more dangerous yuan-ti and lizardfolk. There's not a single thing on that map which is at all interesting.

Another thing I've been suggesting for a while is some tougher areas in the Underdark. There really aren't any. A decent level 10 can solo the Underdark map, and except for the two faction cities and duergar, the rest is mostly all rats and beettles except at the western ends. About the toughest are those 2 areas with the tough spiders that go up to CR 14, but they're not that big.

That's one of the reasons why FD and Giant mountain are popular zones for mid teens. The other mid teen areas are either small, roughly only 1 or 2 areas each, and a group can go through them pretty fast, or there's lots of really annoying caster mobs (particularly ones that can dispel). With Giant mountain and FD, you've got lots of areas and spawns, and its mostly a melee hackfest, that's why people generally pack those areas.

Myrdyr · Post by **Myrdyr** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:23 pm

Lokey wrote:
Myrdyr wrote:" - CR of Arctic Wolves lowered to 10. (They were never meant to be a leveling ground, just a nuisance.)"

You changed the CR. I disagree, but it's your decision to make. Let's just be honest though. Frostdale spawns VAST amounts of wolves. Don't insult us by saying they weren't originally put there for some xp.
They weren't, but then I don't have much idea of what Grumpy was originally thinking with Frostdale. Started at CR 7 or so, like the penguins...unless someone changed them to CR 18

Then should we write up some basic guidelines for area creation to prevent such mistakes, or is someone going to back down to from the "wolves were never meant for xp" charade?

Either way, having large numbers of monsters with a cone breath attack on numerous maps causes lots of lag. If they aren't there for xp, get rid of them and replace them with something that is meant for xp.

CrazyJ · Post by **CrazyJ** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:30 pm

Ice trolls!

Celorn · Post by **Celorn** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:25 pm

Gumppy wrote: ( nothing worse then beeing smashed cause your partied with a kst or brethren etc )

LOL! But that's why the server is so much fun, always being on-edge for a PK, the tags take away the question; 'should I attack?'

Well, I've said it before.... and Havok said it again; raiding factions is great XP! I took my newb wizard to RK and was killing everything there fairly easily, a TC druid joined me later and we were able to even do some bosses... the mobs in factions are same as wolves used to be, and some are higher.

Before FD ever existed, everyone seemed to level 12-18 in NS, MA or RK to level because they were the easiest (and still are), the other factions are a bit trickier:

- AO has true seeing - plus dragons and casters,
- TC has nasty crits, magic and true seeing mord-throwing trees,
- SL has cripling strike, dispelling and you get gang-r*p*d by 15 at once...
- NC is also tough with dispelling, and paly+bard+cleric+summons combos that are a pain, though I did level there post-wipe to gather gear for FD and XP, just had to stay in the buildings and out-lying areas at first.

(And I wouldn't worry about highlevels logging in to defend when the server is at capacity, plus you can always run into a shop and negotiate in peace with the would-be defenders to see if they'll let you level, maybe if you offer them something--ie: -stat book, coffers/boxes, raise scrolls-).

Can I put my vote in for an ICE TROLLS revisit??? maybe you could make a bridge somewhere in FD, with the entrance under/near it ;P or put it in the now unopen cave that used to be the efreets lair entrance.

Cthulhu Drega · Post by **Cthulhu Drega** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:31 pm

since this has turned into a x area needs y monsters how abot adding some inside areas to the ruins next to the archeologist camp? this area has loads of potential a non faction quest giver can be placed in the camp house giving a quest and key to enter the tower in the ruins or the temple thing either will work. you can make it a 10ish level quest with the higer end being 15 or so level ( maybe a requirment of the questgiver only levels 10 to 15 can get the quest? ) have a nifty rewaed or a selection of random same level rewards whatever.

as for inside the ruins how about a trap ridden zone ( something for the rogues to do) and as for monsters maybe some lower level golems or the like and BEHOLDERS a non used monster on the server as far as i know. ithalids (mind flayers) would also be a nice new creature to fight.

and last but not least how about some riddles or puzzles to solve in order to complete the quest everything here seems so straight forward kill kill kill wheres the brains get used? maybe a INT minimum to complete some puzzles ( giving mages somethin to do other than nuke and run for their life )

Post by **Flailer** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:01 am

All these are fine ideas - all these take time. We've got a long list of ideas like this to do and probably not enough man hours or hands to do them. We'll do the best we can.

Post by **DeputyDog** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:30 am

Keep em coming. Give real solutions for realsitic additions.

I like the wyrm road idea.

Ash mountains will get some much needed cr beefing.

I also like the idea of ancient road but remember that is a path for low lvls to get to avendell.

Alot of the filler travel areas are low lvl so they can be traveled. Since the addition of ferrys and dragons, I guess it is time to go back and look at some of these to raise the cr some.

Old Wyrm Road, Ash, Vampires, etc.

P. Fricebottle · Post by **P. Fricebottle** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:00 am

If the Wolves are at a CR of 10 and still retain their breath, then something is seriously, seriously wrong. That was the deadliest part about them, the part that made them such a high CR. Remove the breath or tone it down a ton, because otherwise having CR 10 Wolves killing level 18 players with no evasion is just retarded (2 sprays of breath can do around 40 damage last time I recalled).

Niragawa, I've found them once. Went into their little base, killed everything, and left. Tried remembering where the heck they were, but I never could. Now I just see them hitchiking on the side of the road to The Circle

.

As of now, Frostdale has been really crazy. Two areas for the entire Giant community? Lets step away from the Balance part of the game for a second and look at the Logical part. They are a Giant community. They are cramped into a tiny cave system with one fort. Something isn't matching up here. Also on the balance side, if I recall there was about 3 bosses in one area. Three bosses in One area, they really need to be spread out.

I really would like to see changes to the Niragawa, they're just so cool and its a shame that they've turned into hitchikers and hobos that live in places away from the rich people in the small smelly corner. They deserve more attention, I'd think it would be neat to have multiple stations to enter their "Underground Facility." In their base have many, many torture scenery considering they are evil. Evil while also being lawful, I think I remember them being relatively smart and organized. Maybe thats just me. Perhaps have a quest here where you must rescue a prisoner thats being tortured in their facilities.

Nemesis Revised · Post by **Nemesis Revised** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:24 am

the general sentiment is to return at least the ice trolls for an alternative levelling ground.

one reason is that ice giants and ice efreets tend to get crowded. and if you try to share the area, it usually results in pking. ice skellies provide an alternative but is mostly doable for clerics or wizards..

so where'd the ice trolls go? they don't drop anything special, but they can give you the xp worth battling for.

if we look at the overall layout of neversummer, there are normal maps, and then specific maps that are tailored for wizards or clerics. example? the vampires at duskhaven, the ice skellies at FD, etc. why not make areas that are tailored for melees? a good example of this would be the formians. at low levels, they're pretty effective against casters, but melees are good against them.

maybe make pre-epic maps that melees can benefit from. make them magic resistant, high saves against elemental types, but give them low ac or hp?

P. Fricebottle · Post by **P. Fricebottle** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:02 am

Nemesis Revised wrote:ice skellies provide an alternative but is mostly doable for clerics or wizards..

Have they been changed since the last time I was here? Been only a few weeks maybe, but if I recall last time my group had 2 clerics and 2 mage (a wiz and a sorc) in the skellies yet the xp was still terribly slow even pre-epic.

kgb · Post by **kgb** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:29 am

I thought about using the Archeologist Camp as a quest giver for TC since they have none now but I would imagine the quests are in the pipeline. This was to use the unused area of the Wold (see my response in Quest Thread Ideas)

http://www.nsrealm.com/public/ns4/viewt ... 4&start=60

By using one of the cave entrances it still allows lowbies to travel through without being swamped by mobs yet only have to deal with the petrification monsters there now.

Niragawa would make a nice addition for an adversary for low teens. Turn them into a City like the yuanti. Perhaps an entrance in the forest or as I suggested in the quest thread expand the mystic tower because as it stands now there is only one level.

cheers
kgb