Neutered wolves?
CrazyJ wrote:At least without them giving away Amulets of Improved Evasion or +10 vs Cold saves at the entrance to FD
That one has my vote! lol
As Always,
Poet
***If one can not say anything non-insulting and/or degrading about someone else, regardless of the reasons, then one should simply remain silent. Especially on our boards - let's remain civil, folks. - Mentarch***
Poet
***If one can not say anything non-insulting and/or degrading about someone else, regardless of the reasons, then one should simply remain silent. Especially on our boards - let's remain civil, folks. - Mentarch***
Let me address these areas from a new player perspective.Flailer wrote:Duergar, Yuan-ti, Haddon-Mirk, Bandit-HQ, lesser Amazons and lesser AO Disciples, Formians, Duskhaven, Gnolls, Rock Peak, Niragawa, South Road Tower, Undead Minotaurs...and more.
Duergar are fairly hard to find unless you are from SL, RK or maybe MA. Regardless RK is friendly to them anyways.
Yuan-ti takes some exploring as well but there are multiple routes to them so adventurous players may be lucky enough to stumble upon them. However the sorcerers there will send most first time players back to try again. It is unlikely they will be so adventurous next time.
Haddon-Mirk is a good substitute for Giant Mountain but caps out at a lot lower CR. It is also a rather long way to travel but there is a Rift Shard fairly close by. However it is far too expensive to be taking dragons at that level.
Bandit-HQ is a nice place to visit in a good party but it has to be a well rounded party. Casters will have a tough time because of the Reflex saves. Melee characters will find it tough from all the sneak attacks and saves they have to make. While at the same time you will need a rogue of your own to get through everything.
Lesser Amazons are decent XP but with their criticals being so devastating I only recommend it for mass effect casters. Stone Hold and Wail of the Banshee being the best methods to handle these mobs.
Lesser AO Disciples? C'mon why do you have to single us out! Plently of lower NC and SL goons around to pick on instead. The problem is in each case they are really spread out and take quite a bit of traveling to get decent xp.
Formians are all around the same level as well and only good for xp in the mid teens. The problem lays in travel time for anyone besides MA, SL or RK. There is a Rift Shard fairly close by but for most factions they have to get through the first bunch or take a dragon before they can bind.
Duskhaven is a gold mine of xp with any Cleric or a Sorcerer or Mage with the right spells. Any other class will suffer through ability drains and level drains until they become useless husks. Either way you still have to know the right time to go to get the good xp.
Gnolls are a good substitute for Giant Mountain as well up to a point. It is really best with a good group and some decent tactics. Getting into the fort is somewhat difficult for first time players but once they are there they should do ok.
Rock Peak is good for some quick xp at lower levels but with only a couple areas worth anything it becomes a lot of back and forth travel while waiting for mobs to spawn.
Niragawa are only really on a couple of maps and not much else is around there besides Bug Bears and Goblins. Maybe good for lower levels but usually not worth the stop off.
South Road Tower can be entertaining in mid teens but the "bosses" there can be a bit tough without the proper preperation. Stumbling upon them without knowing what to expect can be devestating for first time players.
Undead Minotaurs can be good xp to get you to epic levels however without the proper buffs it can also be devestating. It's remote location makes it so that only NC players will find it without a world search.
Others areas of note include the Sanctum Arcanum (which may be somewhat hard to find for most), Gargoyles (usually only worth it if you can't take out Ogres yet), King Gustav's Tomb (another hotbed of undead so bring a cleric), Sunken City (Well worth the trip but often overcrowded with players farming for items rather then xp) and the Monastery (if you feel like beating up on quite and peacefull monks minding their own business).
So I do understand that their are other areas around for getting decent XP but Avendel and Frost Dale are supposed to be centers of commerce and trade. Avendel will be this way regardless but Frostdale may actually become the frozen tundra it appears to be.
MLoki
They weren't, but then I don't have much idea of what Grumpy was originally thinking with Frostdale. Started at CR 7 or so, like the penguins...unless someone changed them to CR 18Myrdyr wrote:" - CR of Arctic Wolves lowered to 10. (They were never meant to be a leveling ground, just a nuisance.)"
You changed the CR. I disagree, but it's your decision to make. Let's just be honest though. Frostdale spawns VAST amounts of wolves. Don't insult us by saying they weren't originally put there for some xp.
Tep wrote:I login and there's a dwarf to kill. You can't ask for much more than that.
Alkapwn wrote:NC has the most amazing melee build there is. Its a friggin unstopable juggernaut of pain.
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MasterYoda
- PKer
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There starting to eliminate the characters who can hit 20+ in a few hours.
Done right before the change u can have a cleric there at level 5 taking no damage and reaping all the benifits.
invis and a summon or improved evasion and u go from level 8 - 20 in a matter of 3-5 hours.
i watched kromix go from level 8 to 16 in 2 and a half.
they are trying to make this different from NS 3.5 where it actually takes u time to level.
not jump on in 2 days and have a level 30+ from "leveling areas"
hell get like 4 people together at about levels 12-15 and go raid cities.
good xp and its a fun way to get a few free pks in. and i know people are gonna say " well if we raid then high oevels are going to come pk us"
oh well.........
getting pked is a way of life here in ns.
as for other areas usually when i find new people who dont know much i usually allways try to bring them to a area other than normal leveling areas so i can run the trail with noone to bother me
Done right before the change u can have a cleric there at level 5 taking no damage and reaping all the benifits.
invis and a summon or improved evasion and u go from level 8 - 20 in a matter of 3-5 hours.
i watched kromix go from level 8 to 16 in 2 and a half.
they are trying to make this different from NS 3.5 where it actually takes u time to level.
not jump on in 2 days and have a level 30+ from "leveling areas"
hell get like 4 people together at about levels 12-15 and go raid cities.
good xp and its a fun way to get a few free pks in. and i know people are gonna say " well if we raid then high oevels are going to come pk us"
oh well.........
getting pked is a way of life here in ns.
as for other areas usually when i find new people who dont know much i usually allways try to bring them to a area other than normal leveling areas so i can run the trail with noone to bother me
TGPO wrote:Man, dont u hate it when yoda is right
Amoenotep wrote:yeah....he's a little right
Well its official in less than a day ice giants is so over crowded that you cant get a spawn lol
As Always,
Poet
***If one can not say anything non-insulting and/or degrading about someone else, regardless of the reasons, then one should simply remain silent. Especially on our boards - let's remain civil, folks. - Mentarch***
Poet
***If one can not say anything non-insulting and/or degrading about someone else, regardless of the reasons, then one should simply remain silent. Especially on our boards - let's remain civil, folks. - Mentarch***
That would make the most sense, really. I didn't go over to FD until 16 (though as a druid with stonehold I did quite well in giant mountain), and the xp I got then was half decent, though it wasn't long before I was off into the frost giants.
The DuFresne Family of Malencia
DrunkenGamers.net
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MasterYoda
- PKer
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FD is supposed to be a pre planar area, not a low level hunting ground to farm xp.
The wolves were never meant to be a leveling place, they are there as a nuisance and a reminder of the dangers of the place.
Any character that can handle the creatures in the caves and crypts can walk past the wolves.
The penguins are there for humor only, well and scenery.
The cr was lowered to prevent this.
I would rather see other areas tweaked, so get out there, give us good solid testing/feedback about other areas at what level and in groups and we will tweak them as need be. Usually this involves me taking a char or a party and verifying what needs done.(As was done in the planes recently) Its a big world, I cant hit every corner:)
If you see me on, and you have an area you think needs tweaks, tell me what level you and your party are when you are there and we will go try it.
The wolves were never meant to be a leveling place, they are there as a nuisance and a reminder of the dangers of the place.
Any character that can handle the creatures in the caves and crypts can walk past the wolves.
The penguins are there for humor only, well and scenery.
The cr was lowered to prevent this.
I would rather see other areas tweaked, so get out there, give us good solid testing/feedback about other areas at what level and in groups and we will tweak them as need be. Usually this involves me taking a char or a party and verifying what needs done.(As was done in the planes recently) Its a big world, I cant hit every corner:)
If you see me on, and you have an area you think needs tweaks, tell me what level you and your party are when you are there and we will go try it.
Okay. Since FD is no longer a good place for my half-ogre monk (started today at 13, now almost 15 after about 5 hours with him--this is very slow compared to levelling him earlier even with ogres)...
Haddon-Mirk: Did Gustav's Tomb with a Pally 1 level higher, all the way down to Demon of Destruction. Good XP for my level only off of Gustav's guards and a few of the demons. Pretty slow xp. Not much challenge aside from the bosses. D of D was pretty tough in a slug-fest way. Middle of nowhere for anyone except SL and maybe MA.
Gnolls: Me and a level-higher paladin. Nothing's good XP for a 13-15 party until the pits, and then only the flame dancers/bodyguards. They were pretty tough, and when we ran into a large group we died. Respawn point's a long ways away... and if we had cleared out the Pits, that'd be it... go up and rest/wait for respawn. Not a good spot for levelling, although the xp from the individual enemies was pretty good. I might take a party of 14ish here, but only if nobody cares about levelling too quickly. The archers are still pretty murderous at this level too. Very middle of nowhere. Also hard to find unless you know where it is.
Rock Peak: Only good up to about level 9. I have killed everything on Rock Peak before that level. Not good xp afterwards. Ogres are better unless you're an undead hunter, and about as difficult. Maybe easier since there aren't a bunch of trash bandits sitting around getting sneaks while you're hitting stuff that actually gives more than 10 points of xp. Basically why bother?
Niragawa: Anyone want to post detailed directions for going there? I'm the most active TC player I know, they're on my territory, and I've never been able to find more than a pair of warriors and a tiger. Anyway, they're around ogre level from what I've been told.
South Road Tower: Too high-traffic. The basement area where the portal is could be good xp for a party that would normally do wolves, but it is kept bloodily clear most of the time due to planar traffic. It's also annoyingly noisy. Not as bad as the mosquito noise though.
The way I see it, there are few to no areas that are good for the 12-15 set right now... aside from the upper part of the mountain.
Haddon-Mirk: Did Gustav's Tomb with a Pally 1 level higher, all the way down to Demon of Destruction. Good XP for my level only off of Gustav's guards and a few of the demons. Pretty slow xp. Not much challenge aside from the bosses. D of D was pretty tough in a slug-fest way. Middle of nowhere for anyone except SL and maybe MA.
Gnolls: Me and a level-higher paladin. Nothing's good XP for a 13-15 party until the pits, and then only the flame dancers/bodyguards. They were pretty tough, and when we ran into a large group we died. Respawn point's a long ways away... and if we had cleared out the Pits, that'd be it... go up and rest/wait for respawn. Not a good spot for levelling, although the xp from the individual enemies was pretty good. I might take a party of 14ish here, but only if nobody cares about levelling too quickly. The archers are still pretty murderous at this level too. Very middle of nowhere. Also hard to find unless you know where it is.
Rock Peak: Only good up to about level 9. I have killed everything on Rock Peak before that level. Not good xp afterwards. Ogres are better unless you're an undead hunter, and about as difficult. Maybe easier since there aren't a bunch of trash bandits sitting around getting sneaks while you're hitting stuff that actually gives more than 10 points of xp. Basically why bother?
Niragawa: Anyone want to post detailed directions for going there? I'm the most active TC player I know, they're on my territory, and I've never been able to find more than a pair of warriors and a tiger. Anyway, they're around ogre level from what I've been told.
South Road Tower: Too high-traffic. The basement area where the portal is could be good xp for a party that would normally do wolves, but it is kept bloodily clear most of the time due to planar traffic. It's also annoyingly noisy. Not as bad as the mosquito noise though.
The way I see it, there are few to no areas that are good for the 12-15 set right now... aside from the upper part of the mountain.
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Ryddwillow
- Spamalot
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Niragawa are South and East of Melencia in the Enchanted Forest. Check the Wikki Map for exact directions.
http://img452.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... rld1xb.jpg
MLoki
http://img452.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... rld1xb.jpg
MLoki
I'd like to see ice trolls come back, a good replacement for the wolves. Also since the other areas wetre redone maybe make ice trolls a good lvling place with moderate difficulty to get you started in frostdale before you can take on the harder skeles and giants. I loved the ice trolls before the wipe, even though they were rarely used by others. Also maybe the bosses could be ramped up a bit, as i remember the ice troll boss was rather weak. My 2 cents
Well I have just spent 4 hours making 6k xp in Haddon Mirk with my rogue toon (without dying lol).
Of note an Ogre Hunter has the same CR as a wolf giving me the same xp. Yet I can solo an ogre at level 5 - try that with a winter wolf even me with evasion still think the winter wolf is a bigger threat!
The Mirk Wolves are too dangerous for the CR that they are. They can paralyse and the Mirk Worg Pack Leader damage is excessive for a CR12 creature.
What I am finding all over the maps is there is a vacuum of decent xp from levels 12-20. Sure the "areas" exist but the monsters put there supply bugger all xp making levelling arduous and frustrating. Spare me the crap about grouping and cuddling cos that is not possible all the time given time differences
What I liked about FD was that it was a bad place to go if you didnt have evasion. I called it a "safe haven" for rogue types and monks. These chars had difficulty on giant mountain because their ab and damage potential made them sitting targets to the chunkers and tree smashers. Fighters and Clerics even mages with their summons are at home on the mountain.
Clerics and Wizards once again receive a boon - they can solo planes as it is! Especially clerics.
Try that with a fighter or rogue. At least in FD you could level in relative peace with a rogue knowing that your low dam output wouldnt kill you but make it slow going. The Polar bears were there to keep you mindful of the dangers.
Just another example: A gargoyle is CR7 the same as an Ogre Raider and the same as a Mirk Wolf yet their damage potential is so much more than the gargoyle could ever hope for. Why are these two creatures so low in CR.
The CR scale needs further adjusting (sliding upwards). You asked for feedback that is what I have provided.
Good day
kgb
Of note an Ogre Hunter has the same CR as a wolf giving me the same xp. Yet I can solo an ogre at level 5 - try that with a winter wolf even me with evasion still think the winter wolf is a bigger threat!
The Mirk Wolves are too dangerous for the CR that they are. They can paralyse and the Mirk Worg Pack Leader damage is excessive for a CR12 creature.
What I am finding all over the maps is there is a vacuum of decent xp from levels 12-20. Sure the "areas" exist but the monsters put there supply bugger all xp making levelling arduous and frustrating. Spare me the crap about grouping and cuddling cos that is not possible all the time given time differences
What I liked about FD was that it was a bad place to go if you didnt have evasion. I called it a "safe haven" for rogue types and monks. These chars had difficulty on giant mountain because their ab and damage potential made them sitting targets to the chunkers and tree smashers. Fighters and Clerics even mages with their summons are at home on the mountain.
Clerics and Wizards once again receive a boon - they can solo planes as it is! Especially clerics.
Try that with a fighter or rogue. At least in FD you could level in relative peace with a rogue knowing that your low dam output wouldnt kill you but make it slow going. The Polar bears were there to keep you mindful of the dangers.
Just another example: A gargoyle is CR7 the same as an Ogre Raider and the same as a Mirk Wolf yet their damage potential is so much more than the gargoyle could ever hope for. Why are these two creatures so low in CR.
The CR scale needs further adjusting (sliding upwards). You asked for feedback that is what I have provided.
Good day
kgb
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