Well, well, well. I've tried out the new and unimproved Drow Darkness. If this is to be the end result, I can certainly see why some dm's were referring to the old ability as a bug on the Shout channel.
What have you got against Drow and their ability that made them Drow? Let's look at what Drow are now with this change. I entered into an area with my level 25 Drow Monk and with my level 22 Drow Arcane Archer, with "Darkness" on, I stood a 70% chance of survival. That meant that 30% of the time I had my Drow butt handed to me. With this change, entering into the same area 4 times with each character, I didn't last 20 seconds. So my chance has now been reduced from 70% to 0% chance of survival.
*** "Darkness" was too cheesy, too powerful, so the AI was changed to where "Darkness" acts like a magnet pulling all the baddies in range of it right on top of the Drow. The baddies would chase or investigate that "Darkness" and attack who ever was inside it. And yet they still complained. So lets make Drow Darkness totally useless and change it to 20% concealment without any darkness at all, but everyone who stands in it are 20% concealed too. Standing in Drow Darkness is so much better than Etheral Visage potions or Improved Invisibiliy that I can see everyone looking to jump into that dark little circle for protection. One good thing is we don't need UV any more***
For this privilege of not being able to go into any leveling area now and survive, Drow must also pay the price of ECL 3. Oh and let us not forget that Flame Strike and alike spells still make us blind.
How wonderful. I now 3 opitions:
#1. delevel my level 25 drow back below level 20 so I can take some Rogue for UMD. That way I can use Improved Invisibility scolls that give, not only Invisibility, but 50% concealment...
#2. keep my levels and carry a bunch of Ethereal Visage potions that give 25% concealment plus, damage reduction of 20/+3 AND prevents all spells of level 2 or lower from affecting me..
#3. start a new non Drow character that would probably get farther ahead faster using both potions and scrolls or delete all my Drow and make a bunch of smelly Duergar Drawfs to serve Lolth, at least they get 50% concealment... (what a horrible thought -dwarfs- ugg , how rude)
Somewhere along the lines in NS4 what Drow are suppose to be has been lost because of the opinion of a few. Mainly from people who don't like playing Elven Races. I'm going to stay away from playing for a couple of days as I can not travel into areas where I once could as a dexer and see what kind of feed back comes in from other Drow.
Thanks for listening to my gripe.
Oh where has my Darkness gone?
heh.... oh the pain...... just like when my poor LA monk couldnt run super fast anymore, now the once uber drow suffer as well ! 
the great light of Lathander has smited darkness once and for all !
the great light of Lathander has smited darkness once and for all !
Last edited by kingfatzo on Mon May 22, 2006 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fatzo
Resident Glutton and Hand of the Legendary Brethren
http://thelegendarybrethren.forumsplace.com/
http://brethren.mygameguild.com/main.asp
Resident Glutton and Hand of the Legendary Brethren
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http://brethren.mygameguild.com/main.asp
did I here crying ? man take it easy, u and everyone else on the server knows that drow darkness was way overpowered, WAY! i mean only example u need is of lvl 6 drow soloing FD wolves - thats it.
Ecl 3 wasnt a problem to u before cause u were using a correctly discribed darkness bug to hide in , well now its fixed - but look at what u still get for ecl 3.
U get +2 int and cha SR of 10+4 every 4 lvls +2 to your will saves. all of this while still being considerd a normal elf (elf wpns, wiz favoured class Bonus to skills) oh and 20% concealment isnt a slap in the face neither
aside from all that is the plain old fairness and reality factors - a drow could smash a non UV char of considerably higher lvl (particularly with no blind fight feat) just because of that darkness. The fact is drow are sensitive to light they just are it wasnt implemented on this server now it is oh well, so are those duergar. The other thing is drow havent conquered any whole D&D world becasue they are light sensitive they attack the surface at night instead- their equipment is also supposed to loose all its magic above ground isnt it ?
every single class race build whatever has strengths and weaknesses no one class race build is supposed to be untouchable in D&D it all comes down to one thing ( 2 maybe lol) personal preference of what u like playing and wait for it what u find FUN to play if drow arent Fun anymore move on - but i bet u others will still be kicking my lilly white behind with them drow buggers even with the new changes
Ecl 3 wasnt a problem to u before cause u were using a correctly discribed darkness bug to hide in , well now its fixed - but look at what u still get for ecl 3.
U get +2 int and cha SR of 10+4 every 4 lvls +2 to your will saves. all of this while still being considerd a normal elf (elf wpns, wiz favoured class Bonus to skills) oh and 20% concealment isnt a slap in the face neither
aside from all that is the plain old fairness and reality factors - a drow could smash a non UV char of considerably higher lvl (particularly with no blind fight feat) just because of that darkness. The fact is drow are sensitive to light they just are it wasnt implemented on this server now it is oh well, so are those duergar. The other thing is drow havent conquered any whole D&D world becasue they are light sensitive they attack the surface at night instead- their equipment is also supposed to loose all its magic above ground isnt it ?
every single class race build whatever has strengths and weaknesses no one class race build is supposed to be untouchable in D&D it all comes down to one thing ( 2 maybe lol) personal preference of what u like playing and wait for it what u find FUN to play if drow arent Fun anymore move on - but i bet u others will still be kicking my lilly white behind with them drow buggers
even with the new changesim glad im not the only one with my head on straight 
and i have said that before in past posts -- the whole point is to have essentially a checks and balances system so that one race isnt too overpowered --- it doesnt mean that everything should be nerfed -- bigbys were just changed as in rebalanced not nerfed...and drow deserved a change as well becasuse ( i am assuming) they were seen as a bit too overpowered... even for ecl3.... and i may remind you, if you are drow and are likley in the SL they hold the relics more often than not so your silly little ecl 3 dissapears
<< and if the light bugs you, wear the shades
and i have said that before in past posts -- the whole point is to have essentially a checks and balances system so that one race isnt too overpowered --- it doesnt mean that everything should be nerfed -- bigbys were just changed as in rebalanced not nerfed...and drow deserved a change as well becasuse ( i am assuming) they were seen as a bit too overpowered... even for ecl3.... and i may remind you, if you are drow and are likley in the SL they hold the relics more often than not so your silly little ecl 3 dissapears
<< and if the light bugs you, wear the shades Fatzo
Resident Glutton and Hand of the Legendary Brethren
http://thelegendarybrethren.forumsplace.com/
http://brethren.mygameguild.com/main.asp
Resident Glutton and Hand of the Legendary Brethren
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http://brethren.mygameguild.com/main.asp
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Draco Nightspawn
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- Location: Canada
Drow darkness is darkness, not hips, not concliment, not hide but darkness. I play alot of drow and none of them belong to SL. The +3ecl I can deal with. The being blinded by light etc I can deal with. But with what you have just done to the drow well ( my folks always said if you dont have something nice to say dont say anything at all). If you want to basically destroy a race you have have IMO.
In the 2 years I have been playing here I have seen ALOT of stuff I didnt agree with but I am not a dev or dm. I have quietly sat back and watched as NWN4 grew and with it the changing of different things because ppl couldnt adapt. What is fair for some might not be fair for others and you, the dev's, cant please everyone. I have dm'ed pnp D&D since it first hit the shelves but I am not a "rules" lawyer.
If you keep changing things this is not going to be the server I have come to enjoy .
IMO, leave things as they were. Let ppl adapt and overcome the different weakness and strengths of things. Dont give one race/class "uber" abilities and destroy another.
End of rant
Draco
In the 2 years I have been playing here I have seen ALOT of stuff I didnt agree with but I am not a dev or dm. I have quietly sat back and watched as NWN4 grew and with it the changing of different things because ppl couldnt adapt. What is fair for some might not be fair for others and you, the dev's, cant please everyone. I have dm'ed pnp D&D since it first hit the shelves but I am not a "rules" lawyer.
If you keep changing things this is not going to be the server I have come to enjoy .
IMO, leave things as they were. Let ppl adapt and overcome the different weakness and strengths of things. Dont give one race/class "uber" abilities and destroy another.
End of rant
Draco
Well............. as many know, my best, and highest level toon is a LA, lvl 39 drow.... and I barley ever use the darkness, so many mobs have UV or they dispell the darkness easily, and I hardly ever use it for pvp. but then, I can cast a lvl30 imp.invis and eth.visage...
SO what the change actually ends up doing is giving classes that can't cast uv (except from short-duration helms or scrolls) 20% concealment! That's going to be great for anyone making a pure(ish) melee build...
These subrace changes seem to be gaining a balance for the non-caster classes, I say it's quite clever GOOD JOB TEAM!!
But one thing, with all the 'negatives' drow have, perhaps the ECL should be lowered to 2...? And earth gen might need an increase....unless of course, their racial ability is easily dispellable like drow darkness (does the caster lvl of race abilities scale too??).
SO what the change actually ends up doing is giving classes that can't cast uv (except from short-duration helms or scrolls) 20% concealment! That's going to be great for anyone making a pure(ish) melee build...
These subrace changes seem to be gaining a balance for the non-caster classes, I say it's quite clever GOOD JOB TEAM!!
But one thing, with all the 'negatives' drow have, perhaps the ECL should be lowered to 2...? And earth gen might need an increase....unless of course, their racial ability is easily dispellable like drow darkness (does the caster lvl of race abilities scale too??).
Draco, are you kidding me? "Destroyed a race?" Darkness is exactly how it used to be, the only change we took out was that it does not automatically blind everyone entering the AoE. Why did we do that? Because it was silly to have a level two spell enable soloing of mobs 10 levels higher than you. Nothing else has changed about it.
Repeat after me, people:
Darkness is a level TWO spell!
If you believe the ability to innately cast a level two spell defines your entire race and modifications to that level two spell will cause chaos and destruction and bring down the entire legion of Drow everywhere, I guess you're entitled to believe that. However, let me once again remind you:
Darkness is a level TWO spell!
After going through the other changes, I do believe that we might have undercut the Drow a little bit, and I'd be willing to entertain the idea of changing the concealment to a bonus in Hide (and in so doing would counter the Aasimar's aura ability perfectly). However, there's no need for everyone, as my favorite saying goes, to get their panties in a twist.
Repeat after me, people:
Darkness is a level TWO spell!
If you believe the ability to innately cast a level two spell defines your entire race and modifications to that level two spell will cause chaos and destruction and bring down the entire legion of Drow everywhere, I guess you're entitled to believe that. However, let me once again remind you:
Darkness is a level TWO spell!
After going through the other changes, I do believe that we might have undercut the Drow a little bit, and I'd be willing to entertain the idea of changing the concealment to a bonus in Hide (and in so doing would counter the Aasimar's aura ability perfectly). However, there's no need for everyone, as my favorite saying goes, to get their panties in a twist.
My big question is if the Tieflings still have darkness then why remove it from Drow? Not only do they still have Darkness but they get the extra feat from being human. Why Tieflings, Aasimar, Genasi ect aren't a version of Half-"Elf" instead of human I still don't understand. To get the extra feat for being human and not actually be human is a huge advantage and well worth the ECL 2 that most of these sub-races are. I personally didn't see a problem with the drow darkness and I don't even play drow. Other then various darkness bugs it wasn't an issue for me and now it seems that drow aren't worth the ECL 3 that they are subjected to. Just my 2 cents.
MLoki
[Edit] Wow where did I get ECL 1? Was this a change? Thanks for the clarification.
MLoki
[Edit] Wow where did I get ECL 1? Was this a change? Thanks for the clarification.
Last edited by MLoki on Mon May 22, 2006 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Go'f
Joran you are missing the point, its the combined effect of all the penalties and the removal of what ,makes Drow good.Joran wrote:Draco, are you kidding me? "Destroyed a race?" Darkness is exactly how it used to be, the only change we took out was that it does not automatically blind everyone entering the AoE. Why did we do that? Because it was silly to have a level two spell enable soloing of mobs 10 levels higher than you. Nothing else has changed about it.
Repeat after me, people:
Darkness is a level TWO spell!
If you believe the ability to innately cast a level two spell defines your entire race and modifications to that level two spell will cause chaos and destruction and bring down the entire legion of Drow everywhere, I guess you're entitled to believe that. However, let me once again remind you:
Darkness is a level TWO spell!
After going through the other changes, I do believe that we might have undercut the Drow a little bit, and I'd be willing to entertain the idea of changing the concealment to a bonus in Hide (and in so doing would counter the Aasimar's aura ability perfectly). However, there's no need for everyone, as my favorite saying goes, to get their panties in a twist.
Blindness is a big damaging factor to playability in PcP, its a kill switch
ECL 3 means you have to fight much tougher things, its a play off aginst how much more powerful your supposed to be IMHO ECL should be set at what you can reasonably be expected to have a the same chance as a base race of beating.
I am hoping that the implimentation of a non-bugged Darkness means the real SR can be implimented.
Do we get a nice Aura visual with it, can't wait to test it (my initial reaction before testing is one of mixed emotions... yay it's been fixed, and oh really really scared all the other counter measures combined with this makes for over correction)
First lets correct some misconceptions. Some, and that's very few Drow ever hit FD wolves unless they were casters at level 6. For one simple reason, our Ab and base attack is way too low to even hit a wolf. Second, for monks ant monk, Evasion and Imp Evasion had something to do with not getting hit with the wolve's "Cone of Cold" not darkness. And if you were not a caster, you needed a boat load of UV froggies under level 9 because one can not use UV helmets until then. Even at lvl 9 I tried the wolves, with my fighter. It took way too long to kill a wolf. Some might have seen FD wolves as an advantage at that level I didn't. There is much easier prey to go after. Less XP but more kills per hour so leveling was much faster than going for the big hit points on wolves at level 9. At Level 13, yes FD wolves were the order of the day and yes darkness helped. No doubt about that.
As far as attacking another player, I would understand your complaint about darkness in PvP IF the UV helms were restricted to Drow only. But they weren't/aren't. I have yet to come across any non drow that didn't have UV on them when approaching a Drow concealed with darkness. The only real advantage with Darkness was in "some" PvM. For the most part, it acts like a magnet pulling way too many baddies into you that have high spot and listen checks that find cloaked Drow rather easily and smoke their butts. Besides that, dispelling is another fav that baddies seam to have devepoled along the way. So that blows that arguement.
My Drow lvl 25 monk has SR 34 right now and gets smoked in PvP against a caster of the same level and by casting PvM mobs. Any of the casting mobs in FD drop me like a ton of bricks.
Now as it stands my monk has the added satisfaction of getting nails with bigbies even if I were to run my SR up to 67. A caster with a bow will get my monk every time now. That part I'm not complaining about because I have yet to see if it will be so at level 40.
As far as the +2 to will saves etc.. would be a plus if Drow didn't have to deal with the ECL3. Don't forget that ECL3 makes a huge difference between want a Drow has to deal with for XP verses a non Drow specially if your a dexer to boot.
If I had a meat Shield at my beck and call things might be different. But I don't. Before the change I could barely handle 2 Ice Efferts, using KD and a mess of heal potions all for 67 xp. Now it's just impossible to walk in the cave without running back out to save my poor Drow's life. So back to the wolves for 4 xp? What fun.
My first post wasn't a cry or a whine, it was a statement of both opinion and fact. The Drow ability is now weaker than a potion that anyone can use, are easy to find as drops or make with the right caster. I agree 100% that no one race/class should be "untouchable". Even way back before the wipe when darkness was overpowering in PvM, again, with casters using True Seeing and fighters using UV helmets, the Drow were anything but unbeatable.
One really redundant statement and it's not the first time I've seen it here is, "if you don't find the race you like to play fun any more, move on" or "why don't you play another race". I really wonder if I'd hear that statement from the same people if it was decided that drawves and 1/2 orges were to strong in melee, so strength will now be capped at a max of 18.
The beauty of NS4 are the subraces. Mind you, one paid a price in leveling for that special ability and I agree that "specail abilities" need/needed to be balanced out a bit, but we're talking about a nerf. When a potion gives more and higher level of goodies that anyone can use, what becomes of the so called "special" ability? I personaly would rather have 5 minutes of 50% concealment than 15 minutes of 20% concealment.
Again I speak as a dexer, wearing Class 0 Armor. My AC might be 41, but it takes very little to knock me back into last week. As far as who holds the relics more often. Go look at the score board in Avendell. It's not SL. I haven't seen bonus in a week.
Please excuse the timing of this post, it was ment to address a couple of things said earlier on in other posts. More post have come in while I was writing this one.
PS: darkness might be a level 2 spell if I'm correct there is a difference between casting it as level 5 wizard verses a level 40 wizard. If not please correct me. (not counting, extended spells, spell school focus, etc)
Anyways enough said by me. Lets see where it all goes. ( makes dwarves, ug, make dwarves, ug, repeat as needed)
As far as attacking another player, I would understand your complaint about darkness in PvP IF the UV helms were restricted to Drow only. But they weren't/aren't. I have yet to come across any non drow that didn't have UV on them when approaching a Drow concealed with darkness. The only real advantage with Darkness was in "some" PvM. For the most part, it acts like a magnet pulling way too many baddies into you that have high spot and listen checks that find cloaked Drow rather easily and smoke their butts. Besides that, dispelling is another fav that baddies seam to have devepoled along the way. So that blows that arguement.
My Drow lvl 25 monk has SR 34 right now and gets smoked in PvP against a caster of the same level and by casting PvM mobs. Any of the casting mobs in FD drop me like a ton of bricks.
Now as it stands my monk has the added satisfaction of getting nails with bigbies even if I were to run my SR up to 67. A caster with a bow will get my monk every time now. That part I'm not complaining about because I have yet to see if it will be so at level 40.
As far as the +2 to will saves etc.. would be a plus if Drow didn't have to deal with the ECL3. Don't forget that ECL3 makes a huge difference between want a Drow has to deal with for XP verses a non Drow specially if your a dexer to boot.
If I had a meat Shield at my beck and call things might be different. But I don't. Before the change I could barely handle 2 Ice Efferts, using KD and a mess of heal potions all for 67 xp. Now it's just impossible to walk in the cave without running back out to save my poor Drow's life. So back to the wolves for 4 xp? What fun.
My first post wasn't a cry or a whine, it was a statement of both opinion and fact. The Drow ability is now weaker than a potion that anyone can use, are easy to find as drops or make with the right caster. I agree 100% that no one race/class should be "untouchable". Even way back before the wipe when darkness was overpowering in PvM, again, with casters using True Seeing and fighters using UV helmets, the Drow were anything but unbeatable.
One really redundant statement and it's not the first time I've seen it here is, "if you don't find the race you like to play fun any more, move on" or "why don't you play another race". I really wonder if I'd hear that statement from the same people if it was decided that drawves and 1/2 orges were to strong in melee, so strength will now be capped at a max of 18.
The beauty of NS4 are the subraces. Mind you, one paid a price in leveling for that special ability and I agree that "specail abilities" need/needed to be balanced out a bit, but we're talking about a nerf. When a potion gives more and higher level of goodies that anyone can use, what becomes of the so called "special" ability? I personaly would rather have 5 minutes of 50% concealment than 15 minutes of 20% concealment.
Again I speak as a dexer, wearing Class 0 Armor. My AC might be 41, but it takes very little to knock me back into last week. As far as who holds the relics more often. Go look at the score board in Avendell. It's not SL. I haven't seen bonus in a week.
Please excuse the timing of this post, it was ment to address a couple of things said earlier on in other posts. More post have come in while I was writing this one.
PS: darkness might be a level 2 spell if I'm correct there is a difference between casting it as level 5 wizard verses a level 40 wizard. If not please correct me. (not counting, extended spells, spell school focus, etc)
Anyways enough said by me. Lets see where it all goes. ( makes dwarves, ug, make dwarves, ug, repeat as needed)
Ok there is some constructive stuff going on here
1st to loki the ecl is not 1 for those races that are still human and get the bonus feat its 2 all the gensai, tiefling, aasmir.
2nd I can see where both points are going with this argument - the for and against, darkness is however a lvl 2 spell and yes there is a diff between a 3rd and a 40th lvl wiz casting it(mostly the duration) but its still a 2nd lvl spell and should not lead to NS 4 domination by drow characters pvp or vs mobs.
3rd not all 6th lvl drow in FD were casters i saw a 6th or 7th lvl strnegth rogue using darkness and thus all attacks are sneaks killing wolves at what i would call a reasonable pace.
4th Draco what are u saying man, that drow are completely nerfed now and there is no point in playing one at all - like say a half - ogre.
5th and perhaps most controversially and i hope it can be explained to me.
I realize that not every single change u operators of the server make or are planning to make can be put on the boards for a few weeks feedback but for this time i think we prolly could of used it.
I dont ever play drow - i have had 2 the whole time ive played on here, but with such a big change to such a well used (many players) race perhaps it would have been ok to post the "possible up-coming changes to drow" on the forum somewhere, perhaps not ???
Another example of this is the recent change to the cleric spell implosion ( permanent change,screwed sitch cause of an update, i dont know ??)
That situation is another one where i feel players should have been asked for there thoughts - i mean i havent read a lot about ppl complaining implosion is too powerfull yet it now looks like it acts like a 9th lvl finger of death (single target). Perhaps this was done to implosion because clerics are supposed to be even better than fighters melee on this server (again only had 3 clerics 1 was a scroll machine )
What i have played a lot of is wizards and ill tell u straight out wizards vs monsters kick major monster but on this server - mostly cause of wail ( which is still large area of effect)
anyway a massive post i know sorry but i would really be interested in a serious response to why large changes such as these 2 above are just implemeted saught off like it or lump it and then ppl make many posts knocking it then a few weeks later a compromised is reached and its all ok again lol
1st to loki the ecl is not 1 for those races that are still human and get the bonus feat its 2 all the gensai, tiefling, aasmir.
2nd I can see where both points are going with this argument - the for and against, darkness is however a lvl 2 spell and yes there is a diff between a 3rd and a 40th lvl wiz casting it(mostly the duration) but its still a 2nd lvl spell and should not lead to NS 4 domination by drow characters pvp or vs mobs.
3rd not all 6th lvl drow in FD were casters i saw a 6th or 7th lvl strnegth rogue using darkness and thus all attacks are sneaks killing wolves at what i would call a reasonable pace.
4th Draco what are u saying man, that drow are completely nerfed now and there is no point in playing one at all - like say a half - ogre.
5th and perhaps most controversially and i hope it can be explained to me.
I realize that not every single change u operators of the server make or are planning to make can be put on the boards for a few weeks feedback but for this time i think we prolly could of used it.
I dont ever play drow - i have had 2 the whole time ive played on here, but with such a big change to such a well used (many players) race perhaps it would have been ok to post the "possible up-coming changes to drow" on the forum somewhere, perhaps not ???
Another example of this is the recent change to the cleric spell implosion ( permanent change,screwed sitch cause of an update, i dont know ??)
That situation is another one where i feel players should have been asked for there thoughts - i mean i havent read a lot about ppl complaining implosion is too powerfull yet it now looks like it acts like a 9th lvl finger of death (single target). Perhaps this was done to implosion because clerics are supposed to be even better than fighters melee on this server (again only had 3 clerics 1 was a scroll machine )
What i have played a lot of is wizards and ill tell u straight out wizards vs monsters kick major monster but on this server - mostly cause of wail ( which is still large area of effect)
anyway a massive post i know sorry but i would really be interested in a serious response to why large changes such as these 2 above are just implemeted saught off like it or lump it and then ppl make many posts knocking it then a few weeks later a compromised is reached and its all ok again lol
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Go'f
we were told, and I welcome this change, I do regret that this was not done before all the other crippling effects were applied though, and I am very interested as to wether the AI is corrected also
http://www.nsrealm.com/boards/viewtopic ... 8925#38925
http://www.nsrealm.com/boards/viewtopic ... 8925#38925
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=kSt= Auto
- Noob
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:15 pm
I believe the issue here is that there are so many random opinions that the Devs would spend forever trying to get everyone's opinions on the changes. A perfect example is the disarm...after it was changed, there were some legit arguements both for and against it but they were very specific. A quick compromise was figured out by Zing and it works great for all, with the exception of maybe one toon that seems to be bugged and gets his disarm practically all the time (Avenger).Milkman99 wrote:I realize that not every single change u operators of the server make or are planning to make can be put on the boards for a few weeks feedback but for this time i think we prolly could of used it.
perhaps it would have been ok to post the "possible up-coming changes to drow" on the forum somewhere, perhaps not ???
That situation is another one where i feel players should have been asked for there thoughts - i would really be interested in a serious response to why large changes such as these 2 above are just implemeted saught off like it or lump it and then ppl make many posts knocking it then a few weeks later a compromised is reached and its all ok again lol
Anyway my point is... changes keep the server fresh and someone is going to gripe about something no matter what the DEVs do.
I think this is a good change and will bring a little balance to the server once again.
Thanks to all who worked on it!
=kSt= Auto
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Marah Telexus
- Pk Bait
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:07 pm
I have 3 questions that perhaps Joran can answer:
1) Since darkness was changed to concealment, is the monster AI toward this drow ability different? Before this change my drow could be invis with darkness up and every mob in a screen would flock to me. Seeing as it is just a concealment now, mobs should not flock to it yes?
2) Is the 20% concealment for the caster only? Meaning if I cast this ability on my drow and fight another PC or a mob, will that PC or mob get the 20% concealment bonus as well? Of course they shouldn't, but just wondering if this was checked.
3) I like your idea of adding a hide bonus Joran, but could you also consider increasing the concealment? With blind fight (and yes any melee PC on this server will agree that this IS a must feat, so most have it) the 20% concelement now becomes 4% (the attacker gets a re-roll so 20% becomes 0.2 x 0.2 = 0.04). 50% concealment really is a must and IMO will balance it out a bit more. Either that or perhaps a better idea would be to add a small dmg reduction similar to the shadow dancer feat "shadow evade". This could scale with character level along with the concealment. For example, a lvl 1 character could have 5% concelement and 5/+1 dmg reduction whereas a lvl 40 drow could have a 20% concealment and 16/+6 dmg reduction.
1) Since darkness was changed to concealment, is the monster AI toward this drow ability different? Before this change my drow could be invis with darkness up and every mob in a screen would flock to me. Seeing as it is just a concealment now, mobs should not flock to it yes?
2) Is the 20% concealment for the caster only? Meaning if I cast this ability on my drow and fight another PC or a mob, will that PC or mob get the 20% concealment bonus as well? Of course they shouldn't, but just wondering if this was checked.
3) I like your idea of adding a hide bonus Joran, but could you also consider increasing the concealment? With blind fight (and yes any melee PC on this server will agree that this IS a must feat, so most have it) the 20% concelement now becomes 4% (the attacker gets a re-roll so 20% becomes 0.2 x 0.2 = 0.04). 50% concealment really is a must and IMO will balance it out a bit more. Either that or perhaps a better idea would be to add a small dmg reduction similar to the shadow dancer feat "shadow evade". This could scale with character level along with the concealment. For example, a lvl 1 character could have 5% concelement and 5/+1 dmg reduction whereas a lvl 40 drow could have a 20% concealment and 16/+6 dmg reduction.
Oh I think I can answer some of those with results from my tests.
#1. It's pure concealment. The visual effect that you see is darkness without actually being in darkness. The mobs see you as 20% concealed and will attack accordingly. If you walk up on a group be prepared to fight the whole group. They do not migrate towards you as they once did, but that's because your not in darkness anymore, just concealed. No one needs UV either to see inside the darkness Friend or Foe, Player or Mob.
#2. I'm guessing on this one, but from what I've read, anyone in your party that walks into the "dark" also becomes 20% concealed. It is an area effect towards party members.
#3. To tech for me, so I have to pass on that one. One thing I didn't try, is if this "concealment" can be as easily dispelled by casting mobs or players as darkness was.
#1. It's pure concealment. The visual effect that you see is darkness without actually being in darkness. The mobs see you as 20% concealed and will attack accordingly. If you walk up on a group be prepared to fight the whole group. They do not migrate towards you as they once did, but that's because your not in darkness anymore, just concealed. No one needs UV either to see inside the darkness Friend or Foe, Player or Mob.
#2. I'm guessing on this one, but from what I've read, anyone in your party that walks into the "dark" also becomes 20% concealed. It is an area effect towards party members.
#3. To tech for me, so I have to pass on that one. One thing I didn't try, is if this "concealment" can be as easily dispelled by casting mobs or players as darkness was.