Holy sword

seriouslynow · Post by **seriouslynow** » Fri May 05, 2006 3:13 pm

Are there any changes to the Holy Sword spell. I read the wiki version and it appears to be normal. (I thought I heard or read somewhere that it had been nerfed)

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Fri May 05, 2006 3:15 pm

At some point the Dispel on hit was messed with, apparently it got nerfed somehow. But, that was a long time ago. May have changed again by now.

Post by **Sparky** » Fri May 05, 2006 4:13 pm

The current version of Holy Sword is as follows.

+5 Enhancement bonus versus Undead.
+2D6 Divine Damage versus Undead.
Duration of around 1 Turn/Level.
2 Dispels (10 caster level) castable from the enchanted sword.

Suffice to say, a change is in the works, can't say when it will go live.

Celorn · Post by **Celorn** » Fri May 05, 2006 5:48 pm

I have a question or two....

1.will holy sword effect all undead summons, shifted undead forms AND palemasters?

2.could the damage/enhancment be changed (back) to EVIL instead of undead? paladins already have bless weapon for undead fighting...so the holy sword tweaks are kind of redundant... the effect is ultra cool and the dispell is a nice idea (but hard to keep quickslotted)

Death Dealer1 · Post by **Death Dealer1** » Fri May 05, 2006 5:54 pm

should work against undead summons and shifted undead forms as they are undead..PM's are not undead and until someone decides they are, tough luck.

p.s. making PM's undead would mean that someone would have to determine how many PM lvls are required before your officially undead and as such, why wouldn't you be a lich?

Celorn · Post by **Celorn** » Fri May 05, 2006 6:08 pm

Well something needs to be done about PMs - level 10 is the level where they have all the properties of being undead (crit immune, death immune, sneak immune...) so it only makes sense that they ARE undead (healing spells should harm and harm should heal) -- This way, a PM would possibly need a support cleric to cast harm on them, or a mage to slot many, many neg circles... I've seen this done on NS3.5 with an undead shifter and mage combo, it's quite impressive to witness!

So Holy sword should be altered one way or the other to effect PMs more - it's one easy way of helping to make a melee class more balanced with the rest of the server (also changing it to Evil damage would help against blackguards and other evil pcs, summons and mobs)

Plus the NC job bonus should also effect PMs too, since NC is against undead and evil it's the perfect solution.

Death Dealer1 · Post by **Death Dealer1** » Fri May 05, 2006 6:12 pm

why you PM hating so much? don't like my 65+buffed ac? or my tremendous tanking power now that i know i can tank the planar bosses?

Post by **Sparky** » Fri May 05, 2006 6:27 pm

Palemaster's never gain all of an undead's properties. They do not gain: immunity to Death Effects, Mind Affecting spells, Poisons, Diseases, Ability Drains, and Level Drain.

Now depending on how you make your build, you could be very vulnerable to Death Spells ect..., though most people make competant builds limiting their risk to such affects they are vulnerable to.

They do however gain immunity to: Stuns, Paralyzes, Holds, Critical Hits and all skills depending on being Critable (Sneak Attack, Death Attack, Stunning Fist, Quivering Palm).

They also gain a boat load of AC, which when coupled with Crit Immunity, seems to be your main issue with the class Celorn.

A Palemaster isn't so much undead, as they are barely alive.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Fri May 05, 2006 8:14 pm

Celorn wrote:(crit immune, death immune, sneak immune...) so it only makes sense that they ARE undead

Using that logic you could also claim they ARE constructs...

Though they don't have death immune. So PM's are less than constructs and undead in that respect.

Nemesis Revised · Post by **Nemesis Revised** » Fri May 05, 2006 8:21 pm

pms are fine as they are. they dont hit that hard but high ac. im wondering why you don't like pms and want sme way to nerf them

Celorn · Post by **Celorn** » Fri May 05, 2006 8:40 pm

Ok so I haven't done my research on PMs and PMs in NS4... I just think it'd be cool if they were true undeads maybe at level 20? Being immune to death spells and effected negatively by healing, the full undead assortment..

But whether this happens on ns4 or not is not the thread here anyhow, it's about Holy Sword -- dispell on hit (Holy Avenger) may be a bit too uber for NS4, but I would really like to see the damage to undead get changed back to damage vs. EVIL... and instead of just Dispell Magic, why not make it Greater Dispell? and base it off of paladin caster levels (including Abjuration focus).

And DD1-- I don't personally have any problem with PMs, any cleric (or my bard) can chop one to pieces fairly quickly without too much problem... and they're gonna come in quite handy in the Shadow Plane with all the sneak attacks and nasty crits you're gonna see in there! (In fact I will probably make one myself for tanking, OR a druid or shifter... haven't decided yet).

Another reason paladins need more juice.

At the same time tho, perhaps to help out the other melee classes -- some things could be done to Ranger's Blood Thirst spell...it's one of many useless ranger spells, why not make it like other (ahem cleric) spells - 1 +1 ab per caster lvl (to 5) and how about 1 +1 ab vampiric? And as was said in another thread, if it's possible - make the normal and Greater Magic Fang work on summons...

And while at it, perhaps give Barbarians +1 bludge every 5 levels during rage...

seriouslynow · Post by **seriouslynow** » Mon May 08, 2006 1:22 pm

Ooo, I really like the extended duration on the holy sword. (If there are considerations made about this being too long then I suggest adding cha bonus to the 1round/lvl of the original spell.) Hopefully the upcoming change will reinstate its dispell on hit properties in some form. Afterall, a pally can already cast greater magic weapon to get the +5enh and it sounds like there are a fair number of +5 weapons available now anyhow. The dispel on hit is what really set them apart. Especially when you get the chance to dispell on every hit, not by taking a round to actually use the sword as an item.

PeregrineV · Post by **PeregrineV** » Mon May 08, 2006 5:56 pm

As in the laying hands or turning undead, would CoT levels add to the paladin's level? If not, could it be made so?

Razarr69 · Post by **Razarr69** » Mon May 15, 2006 12:00 pm

From what I can see, the Holy Sword spell would appear to be nerf'd into useless-ness. Paladins are not simply Undead smiters. They fight Evil in all of its forms. The spell is supposed to be able to turn a normal sword into a Holy Avenger which should have a true +5 enchantment for a Pally, not just a bonus against a specific opponent type. You don't get access to the spell until level 15 anyway, I would think by then you should have a +5 weapon available to you. (Of course, I'm just now venturing into NS4, I'm a NS3.5 junkie)

Deicide · Post by **Deicide** » Mon May 15, 2006 12:54 pm

The extended duration of Holy Sword is a good change, I must agree, but I would really like to see Holy Sword back to its original form, giving +5 enhancement bonus vs anything and 2d6 divine damage vs. evil. Right now, the spell does very little, since even Bless Weapon, a 1st-level spell, gives a very similar ability to harm undead.