Mulitple logins and Relic Camping

[Draco Nightspawn]

Rydd, have you compared the guards around the relic cradles? I have only been to a few ( SL, AO, NC, MA ) and imo some of these so called defenders are more of a hindrance than a help.
1. AO : a dragon, 5 or 6 guardians
all have true sight, some not bad weapons and skills
2. NC : definetly could use a boost to skills and lvls
3. MA : 2 or 3 wizards and a couple of contructs
impervious to crits and sneaks but relatively weak
4. NS : couple of medium high toons 6 or defenders
all are weak in skills and weapons
5. SL : need more be said, possible the strongest setup on the server
2 or 3 clerics, 1 or 2 assassins, a minion and 3 or 4 defenders
good skills and attacks
clerics buff good

There you have it in a nutshell. I think if the relics are kept in then the faction defenders need to be brought to par with SL. Maybe if the high ( 30+ ) lvl pc toons are defending / raiding it would be nice to see a setup something like this:
1. A 35+ lvl boss, 2 or 3 30 to 35 lvl backups and no more than 6 other defenders
2. Good skills and defence capablity, not all need to be hack and slash
an example of good defence and raid abilities is DD. They back 1 or 2
fighter types with 2 or 3 mages.
Could not the npc defenders be buffed as a well?

Anyway thats my rant for the next 6 months.
Have fun all
Draco

[Nemesis Revised]

i like guards being better off than so. the idea of beefing up other factions guards should be entertained by devs as well! but do try to stick on topic.

-reads title of post-

[Mr. O'Dearly]

aye, but to regulate this would be nearly impossable... i think this is one of those redundant discussions... if the Dev's want to make a sort of official "policy" or rough regulations to follow, it would be undersstandable, but i think the people on the server who do multi-log dont abuse it.... as for using this second toon as a defense against raiders then picture this:

(assuming a single account-single CPU)
1. relic raid warning comes up
2. 2 seconds later.... i log off to log a defensive toon
3. within 10 seconds i am back on the server
4. autoquicken -- buffed under a minute
5. withing 1 screen of my relic within 20 seconds

since it takes 90 seconds for the cradle to collapse.... i can be fully buffed and waiting with a toon that i relogged within the time it takes to snatch a relic...

therefore, having a second toon that is ACTIVE but ready to defend would be no different than relogging from the same account.... therefore the only "concern" here is multiple logins by the same person -- BUT there is no way to really tell if it is just one person, unless they are just standing there

I believe there is nothing more to say about this topic, for it will just turn into another mindless babble of rants and complaints....

The solution is simply what has been stated by the DM's earlier --- if the server is crowded ( 40+ ) then sending tells to people randomly to see if they are afk will work fine and will eliminate this problem....

and consider this -- people who are members of smaller factions -- if you had the ability to log multiple toons to raid/defend i seriously think that you would

There is a huge difference between having someone standing at the relic cradle and someone responding to the server shout.

picture this:
No PCs standing around relic cradle
1. Raider walks in.
2. Raider kills all NPC's
3. Raider gathers any loot they want.
4. Raider rests, sets traps, closes/opens doors, preps spells etc...
5. Raider touches cradle.
6. NOW server shout. Defenders relog etc.

PCs standing at relic cradle
1.Raider walks in.
2.Raider is swarmed.
3.The end.

From what ive experienced most buffed defenders tend to show up only shortly before relic relinquishes. The point is Raiders DO have an advantage of time when there aren't lvl 40's standing around the cradle.

Note: relogging takes a bit longer than two seconds. Today when I raided NS with Deekin I killed guards etc... Touched cradle and left. I made a couple screen transitions and defenders were only just beginning to relog. For a minute I thought I shouldve tried to actually take the relic. Then I remembered I only have 11 str and cant carry it.

[kingfatzo]

well yes there may be a player guarding the relic, but it doesnt mean he is dual logged he can just be guarding, or had been in the area, so that senario is only one sided man.

again... too many vairables in this....if you are concerned about getting whacked due to a "lvl 40" guarding the cradel, then raid with more ppl / form cross faction agreements.

[Nemesis Revised]

if you are concerned about getting whacked due to a "lvl 40" guarding the cradel, then raid with more ppl / form cross faction agreements.

- or don't raid at all

that's how devs would put it. you dont want to die; dont get in there if you cant guarantee success.

[Celorn]

TOPIC: Well, for one thing, you can't limit multiple ips logging because of people that have multiple players in the same household (like some of us LA guys). Back before the epic areas opened, I used to have JUST Sin logged in, standing in the NS castle... I was getting some good XP from killing level 40 and other higher lvl attackers (although, DEVS: Look into the XP you get from a defense kill doesn't add the relic bonus!!)

Since the epic areas opened, relics have beocome a secondary priority, right now it's all about getting to lvl40 and getting all the sweet new gear!

i personnaly dont go after the relic,(only when i'm bored)but i see a loggin name and another and i know they are the same(I know loggin names - trust me)to have one camped there is not the solution---causes lag.

Personally i think the gaurds should be be buffed a lil more and all should be more aware is all. make it exciting is all to capture a relic. make the person to capture the relic w/ out loggin off to retrieve another char to carry it the rest of the way and gain exp some ......not much, simple solutions.....

Gaurds should be huge compared to what they are now... this is your factions relic.......should be the strongest to gaurd.

Yes willow, we're all impressed that you know login names (all the good players do too ya'know -- but do you know all 6 of mine??)

but I AGREE with you!

Yesterday, we were raiding NC to get our relic back...and just for fun me and grunt killed every NPC that crossed our path, pretending that it was a challenge, and wishing that it was!

Now that the epic areas are here, giving XP out easier with higher CR creatures isn't such a problem... so perhaps the team should look at buffing up ALL the faction guards cuz honestly, with my monk I just ignore all the enemy guards most of the time... they can't really hurt any of my lvl30+ toons.

So a possible solution to stopping dual-account relic guarding: Beef up all the faction NPCs! If they were more like epic dwarfs, wouldn't that be much more exciting? And nobody would have to sit on the cradle afk if the guards were actually a challenge - so a single attacker would have a really tough time waltzing in and easily snagging the relic.

[Elagneros]

Now that the epic areas are here, giving XP out easier with higher CR creatures isn't such a problem... so perhaps the team should look at buffing up ALL the faction guards cuz honestly, with my monk I just ignore all the enemy guards most of the time... they can't really hurt any of my lvl30+ toons.

So a possible solution to stopping dual-account relic guarding: Beef up all the faction NPCs! If they were more like epic dwarfs, wouldn't that be much more exciting? And nobody would have to sit on the cradle afk if the guards were actually a challenge - so a single attacker would have a really tough time waltzing in and easily snagging the relic.

Heck no!

First off, it's been stated before the faction guards aren't supposed to be the toughest mobs. It's also been stated that PCs are intended to provide the most significant opposition in faction defense. The guards aren't supposed to be significant opposition to anyone above level 30. And the relic system itself is primarily a way to keep high-level players occupied with a CTF game rather than going around punking lowbies and noobs because they're bored.

[kingfatzo]

The guards aren't supposed to be significant opposition to anyone above level 30.

cough.....cough..... SL

[Mr. O'Dearly]

The guards aren't supposed to be significant opposition to anyone above level 30.

cough.....cough..... SL

?... ive gone into Menzo with a lvl 24 and smeared the guards across the floor...
or am i missing something...

[Celorn]

Heck no!

First off, it's been stated before the faction guards aren't supposed to be the toughest mobs. It's also been stated that PCs are intended to provide the most significant opposition in faction defense. The guards aren't supposed to be significant opposition to anyone above level 30. And the relic system itself is primarily a way to keep high-level players occupied with a CTF game rather than going around punking lowbies and noobs because they're bored.

But think of it... who levels off of NS guards anymore now that there is a better place for CR16ish mobs? years ago, people would level in RK or LA, but now LA has 2 guilds to protect it so people will find themselves PK'd a lot if they try it.

I would love to be significantly challenged when entering any enemy faction city, but I understand the plusses and minuses of both... perhaps all factions should at least have a mage NPC that casts MORDS and maybe bigby.... hehe.

And yes o'dearly.. the only way you'd have trouble with menzo or any guards in the mid 20's and up is if you were Bigby'd or stunned somehow while an entire mob of 10 or so got to slam into you flatfooted... Or of course your build was terribly bad... I think TC actually has a tougher combo than SL -- with the trueseeing aimed mords flying at you, then acid greataxe crits and some magic flying at you -- pretty nasty if you don't have some good ac or a wicked offense...

[kingfatzo]

The guards aren't supposed to be significant opposition to anyone above level 30.

cough.....cough..... SL

?... ive gone into Menzo with a lvl 24 and smeared the guards across the floor...
or am i missing something...

Sorry... a bit stretched, but i couldnt help but point out the imbalance amongst the different faction guards.... but back to the topic.

[P. Fricebottle]

SL is tough due to its nice defensive set-up and co-operative guards. Besides, those dual schimmys can get some bad crits on a low AC character.

[Elagneros]

But think of it... who levels off of NS guards anymore now that there is a better place for CR16ish mobs?

No one in their right mind, since it IS a Brethren rule to attack any enemies in NS City on sight.

years ago, people would level in RK or LA, but now LA has 2 guilds to protect it so people will find themselves PK'd a lot if they try it.

RK got two guilds too. Yeah, attacking faction cities now is generally more risky with greater guild activity. Only sane reason to do so is for gear.

[Mr. O'Dearly]

Deekin does it. He has no fear!

But, back to the topic.

[PeregrineV]

I think that the SERVER shout message tells people when the relic is being raided. So, even with 2 accounts, they can hop from the leveling PC to the guarding PC when the message appears.

Take away the server raiding shout message. Instead, upon log-in, have the location of the relic-guys (seers?) given to the player, to use the info to hunt down their own relic or go after someone elses, if they care to.

That way, it tones down the whole relic chase, but still makes it avavilable for those that care.

And nothing to stop the DMs from giving shouts during raids, if for no reason than to display the fickleness of the gods relative to mortal concerns. Or, other faction people who notice an enemy in their city.