double hasted monks of NS
-
Death Dealer1
- PKer
- Posts: 1263
- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:59 pm
- Location: the land of aaahhhhh's, where dorothy lives ;)
double hasted monks of NS
so.....the quickened pace item is still useable with haste on monks to make them tremendously fast. i thought this kind of super speed cheat was supposed to be fixed with the haste fix?
if i didn't do it...someone else would have.
-
Death Dealer1
- PKer
- Posts: 1263
- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:59 pm
- Location: the land of aaahhhhh's, where dorothy lives ;)
The item only stacks with speed of movement, unlike the haste spell which also impacts everything else like attack speed.
Considering how weak the LA/NS city is to defend compared to the secret doors and caves of the Drow, and AO guards. I'd say its about the only reason anyone would really see joining LA as an alliance.
The guards are week, the Coartyard is huge, and there are no other real defenses for the city unless you consider the occational guard spawn. Which really is outnumbered by citizens about 2/1 most places.
The speed stacks with monks, and its not a cheat, it just stacks. You dont get the full benefit, but you do get a boost. Its is movement only.
If your going to remove the LA stack, how about you remove the ability to cast 30 minute darkness on the drow. Thats a way bigger exploit then speed, monks can't hit high AC at all, and they lose most of thier benefits, when say 3 DD stand at the gate outside thier temple, and KD you as you zone in, and lock the door in the sewers, rinse and repeate huh?
There are way more overbalancing things out there. I'd start with darkness on drow which allows them to go as far up as they want with very little effort, its nice seeing a drow at level 10 killing stuff 10 levels over them solo.
How about you remove that sneak attack that goes off every round? what the hell is that? You can stand in front of a monster and sneak attack it all day? at which point does that have to be limited to say 1 time every round. How about sneak attack with bow? the very nature of a bow shot is nobody can see that dang thing most the time till it hits. How is that translated into a sneak attack 4 times a round?
After the first attack the sneak attacks should shut off? Why not complain about the KD and sneak attacks at zone ins?
The problem is you can't use those on the monk taht doesn't decide to let you hit them so you are saying its a cheat? How is it cheating? level 30monk is still way faster then you'll ever catch, perhaps slow them down to a nice easy speed you can catch? Does anyone have a monk on another aliance? they are already way weak in just about everything else at high levels compared to a caster or fighter.
The fact is everyone is taking sneak attack/bard/cleric/WM builds why? because thats the single biggest overbalalancing ability.
Lets make Parry actually work perhaps?
I'm not complaining, but its odd nobody points at thier character and says hey I'm overbalanced, they just say hey I can't kill that person, lets fix that.
I have a high level monk and I see very little advantage with speed versus my tradeoff with attack bonus, stunning fist couldn't hardly stun anyone over 30, and quivering palms is a shame and shouldn't even be a feat, useless on anything over level 5. The speed gives a monk very little advantage other then running a flag even then they have to contend with the weight of the flag. Unless your character is super loaded with items, I dont think any monk can stand up very long under a fighter and or wizard combo of their same level. Speed is there only asset unless they can't be spotted with SD.
Even without the token you couldn't really catch a level 20+ monk anyway, they are faster then haste at that point.
I do not know what cheat you use to get 2 tokens at once, perhaps you should explain that before you try to get it fixed with fear tactics about how its an exploit. You can't get 2 unless you cheated some other way.
Here is a suggestiong, fix sneak attack to no proc 5 times a round for possible 500+hps of damage. Dont let it work on people when the sneaker is in front and already swung once the creature. That is a balance issue.
Reduce the Drow darkness spell to something resonable or cap it at 5 minutes or less, perhaps we would not see a 3/1 ratio and see more folks spread out to other alliances.
Also reduce the ammount of exp gained by the relics if there isn't an equal number of people on another team online.
When DD comes in with 6 guys takes teh relics when there are not enough other aliances online, why let them keep leveling 50% all day long. Your causing the other aliances to be to weak to fight a good fight. Its not hard to beat 5 level 20s with one 35+ let alone the number they sport. Everyone is moving to Drow, pretty soon there will not be many other aliances that even care. Why let 3 of them keep leveling their characters all day long at 50%+? There is an interesting problem, victim of thier own success? How do you balance the races/aliances out? Kill one of them take the relics and 8 log in 35+ and take them back, then log off leaving the 3 there again.
They level faster then anyone, get the gear, and the other aliances have very little presense. How about you give a bonus to an alliance that doesn't have that many members on or in the game for a given period of time? That would make people create and be other aliances, level faster and perhaps compete, but right now for the last 2 weeks. The Drow have held the relics and I see many characters zooming up the levels over there, who wouldn't want to level faster if they know they will have relics. Figure out a way to balance the leveling gap and we will see more RK or MA or NC capping those flags. I mean there are MA guys logging in thier MA characters to give the Drow the items to level their new DD toons, nobody seems to care about that as an exploit, but its overbalancing the game quite a bit. Pretty soon you will see KST and tLB joining full time to just cap a flag.
Considering how weak the LA/NS city is to defend compared to the secret doors and caves of the Drow, and AO guards. I'd say its about the only reason anyone would really see joining LA as an alliance.
The guards are week, the Coartyard is huge, and there are no other real defenses for the city unless you consider the occational guard spawn. Which really is outnumbered by citizens about 2/1 most places.
The speed stacks with monks, and its not a cheat, it just stacks. You dont get the full benefit, but you do get a boost. Its is movement only.
If your going to remove the LA stack, how about you remove the ability to cast 30 minute darkness on the drow. Thats a way bigger exploit then speed, monks can't hit high AC at all, and they lose most of thier benefits, when say 3 DD stand at the gate outside thier temple, and KD you as you zone in, and lock the door in the sewers, rinse and repeate huh?
There are way more overbalancing things out there. I'd start with darkness on drow which allows them to go as far up as they want with very little effort, its nice seeing a drow at level 10 killing stuff 10 levels over them solo.
How about you remove that sneak attack that goes off every round? what the hell is that? You can stand in front of a monster and sneak attack it all day? at which point does that have to be limited to say 1 time every round. How about sneak attack with bow? the very nature of a bow shot is nobody can see that dang thing most the time till it hits. How is that translated into a sneak attack 4 times a round?
After the first attack the sneak attacks should shut off? Why not complain about the KD and sneak attacks at zone ins?
The problem is you can't use those on the monk taht doesn't decide to let you hit them so you are saying its a cheat? How is it cheating? level 30monk is still way faster then you'll ever catch, perhaps slow them down to a nice easy speed you can catch? Does anyone have a monk on another aliance? they are already way weak in just about everything else at high levels compared to a caster or fighter.
The fact is everyone is taking sneak attack/bard/cleric/WM builds why? because thats the single biggest overbalalancing ability.
Lets make Parry actually work perhaps?
I'm not complaining, but its odd nobody points at thier character and says hey I'm overbalanced, they just say hey I can't kill that person, lets fix that.
I have a high level monk and I see very little advantage with speed versus my tradeoff with attack bonus, stunning fist couldn't hardly stun anyone over 30, and quivering palms is a shame and shouldn't even be a feat, useless on anything over level 5. The speed gives a monk very little advantage other then running a flag even then they have to contend with the weight of the flag. Unless your character is super loaded with items, I dont think any monk can stand up very long under a fighter and or wizard combo of their same level. Speed is there only asset unless they can't be spotted with SD.
Even without the token you couldn't really catch a level 20+ monk anyway, they are faster then haste at that point.
I do not know what cheat you use to get 2 tokens at once, perhaps you should explain that before you try to get it fixed with fear tactics about how its an exploit. You can't get 2 unless you cheated some other way.
Here is a suggestiong, fix sneak attack to no proc 5 times a round for possible 500+hps of damage. Dont let it work on people when the sneaker is in front and already swung once the creature. That is a balance issue.
Reduce the Drow darkness spell to something resonable or cap it at 5 minutes or less, perhaps we would not see a 3/1 ratio and see more folks spread out to other alliances.
Also reduce the ammount of exp gained by the relics if there isn't an equal number of people on another team online.
When DD comes in with 6 guys takes teh relics when there are not enough other aliances online, why let them keep leveling 50% all day long. Your causing the other aliances to be to weak to fight a good fight. Its not hard to beat 5 level 20s with one 35+ let alone the number they sport. Everyone is moving to Drow, pretty soon there will not be many other aliances that even care. Why let 3 of them keep leveling their characters all day long at 50%+? There is an interesting problem, victim of thier own success? How do you balance the races/aliances out? Kill one of them take the relics and 8 log in 35+ and take them back, then log off leaving the 3 there again.
They level faster then anyone, get the gear, and the other aliances have very little presense. How about you give a bonus to an alliance that doesn't have that many members on or in the game for a given period of time? That would make people create and be other aliances, level faster and perhaps compete, but right now for the last 2 weeks. The Drow have held the relics and I see many characters zooming up the levels over there, who wouldn't want to level faster if they know they will have relics. Figure out a way to balance the leveling gap and we will see more RK or MA or NC capping those flags. I mean there are MA guys logging in thier MA characters to give the Drow the items to level their new DD toons, nobody seems to care about that as an exploit, but its overbalancing the game quite a bit. Pretty soon you will see KST and tLB joining full time to just cap a flag.
Last edited by Umpa on Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
JesterOI
- Resident Spam King
- Posts: 1016
- Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 4:14 am
- Location: SPAM!!!ville
- Contact:
I think monks definitely need some better gloves.
level 25:
+6str
+5ac
+5ab
+2d8bludg
+2d8magic
No keen, no massive crits. only an extra 1d8 magic dmg.
Just what all the other melee classes get already.
level 25:
+6str
+5ac
+5ab
+2d8bludg
+2d8magic
No keen, no massive crits. only an extra 1d8 magic dmg.
Just what all the other melee classes get already.
Last edited by JesterOI on Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LVL 69 LFGS!!!
The Hasselhoff 4 3v3r!!! Metis n3v3r!!!
The Hasselhoff 4 3v3r!!! Metis n3v3r!!!
-
Nemesis Revised
- Newbie Helper
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2002 8:34 am
uhm, i must admit the relics do help in leveling. but it's not entirely that factor. it's also about organization. major organizations such as DD, kst, tLB help each other out and have different disciplines that non-guild players don't have.
there are days when DDs have no relics; or at least their own relic. but they can still level. you have to equate hardwork with each player and organization style. you can't just say its the relics.
there are days when DDs have no relics; or at least their own relic. but they can still level. you have to equate hardwork with each player and organization style. you can't just say its the relics.
1%useful posts, 99% spaM
I relate it to, every hardcore player has joined on one team for late night relic joy, and most of the day too.
The fact is, people, and I'll use Fezzik as and example, had a very high level TOON in another aliance, but now uses it to help control the relics to level his DD and other DD toons.
Tactics are always nice, but most of the time is just 8 level 35+ toons showing up, with perhaps 3 to resist them. I'll work out a good one for that, but Zerg overrun might be a good name for it. How do you resist that many high level toons if you reward them for all being on the same team? I mean how much trust would you have in a people that switch sides for exp bonuses and lack of people on thier alliance. I was RK for a week I saw 3 other RK in that time for example. But if you gave them say for a few weeks a base 10% bonus or more even you just might see more. There are aliances I never see with people on. Give them a 50% bonus that would be interesting, once thier numbers reach a total or levels = something, then remove it. But how can a guy leveling a 3ecl paladin stand against 6 guys 35+? Or even 30+, they will just sneak attack him to death in 1 or 2 rounds with queen axes.
It would be a lot more interesting if you could populate other aliances. I think if you nerf the Token, you will eliminate LA's chance to even cap the flag, let alone hold it. Which should be thought about, how can that item be so great if DD or KST hold the flags the majority of the time between them?
So:
Give the aliances with less people a bonus to help even out the game a bit, spread out the players then you will see tactics.
The only tactic I see, I touch relic, instantly 4 DD log off and log in thier 35+ toons that didnt specialize in teh new planes weapons. They then camp the exit from the temple to KD before you actually see the screen. I dont care what kind of speed you have that tactic works on everyone.
The fact is, people, and I'll use Fezzik as and example, had a very high level TOON in another aliance, but now uses it to help control the relics to level his DD and other DD toons.
Tactics are always nice, but most of the time is just 8 level 35+ toons showing up, with perhaps 3 to resist them. I'll work out a good one for that, but Zerg overrun might be a good name for it. How do you resist that many high level toons if you reward them for all being on the same team? I mean how much trust would you have in a people that switch sides for exp bonuses and lack of people on thier alliance. I was RK for a week I saw 3 other RK in that time for example. But if you gave them say for a few weeks a base 10% bonus or more even you just might see more. There are aliances I never see with people on. Give them a 50% bonus that would be interesting, once thier numbers reach a total or levels = something, then remove it. But how can a guy leveling a 3ecl paladin stand against 6 guys 35+? Or even 30+, they will just sneak attack him to death in 1 or 2 rounds with queen axes.
It would be a lot more interesting if you could populate other aliances. I think if you nerf the Token, you will eliminate LA's chance to even cap the flag, let alone hold it. Which should be thought about, how can that item be so great if DD or KST hold the flags the majority of the time between them?
So:
Give the aliances with less people a bonus to help even out the game a bit, spread out the players then you will see tactics.
The only tactic I see, I touch relic, instantly 4 DD log off and log in thier 35+ toons that didnt specialize in teh new planes weapons. They then camp the exit from the temple to KD before you actually see the screen. I dont care what kind of speed you have that tactic works on everyone.
-
Nemesis Revised
- Newbie Helper
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2002 8:34 am
didnt know DDs had 35+ toons 
only silent has one. and he doesnt show up often. we usually have 28s-32s but not 35+s 
this argument has been done b4. questions about faction balancing has been remedied by giving factions such as RK and MA really nice jobs. have you tried them? but it's not entirely the jobs that would encourage an increase in population. it's still player preference.
back to the topic. what's being questioned at hand is the quickened pace with a monk. just because quickened pace is going to be fixed in accordance to monk classes means a faction like LA will be nerfed. please look at it more critically. LA doesnt make monk classes all the time. tLb makes good pvp characters without having a monk class on it. so again, the topic is about fixing quickened pace WITH a monk. not quickened pace and its implications on the whole of the LA social fabric.
only silent has one. and he doesnt show up often.
we usually have 28s-32s but not 35+s this argument has been done b4. questions about faction balancing has been remedied by giving factions such as RK and MA really nice jobs. have you tried them? but it's not entirely the jobs that would encourage an increase in population. it's still player preference.
back to the topic. what's being questioned at hand is the quickened pace with a monk. just because quickened pace is going to be fixed in accordance to monk classes means a faction like LA will be nerfed. please look at it more critically. LA doesnt make monk classes all the time. tLb makes good pvp characters without having a monk class on it. so again, the topic is about fixing quickened pace WITH a monk. not quickened pace and its implications on the whole of the LA social fabric.
1%useful posts, 99% spaM
Also with the monks, you were saying nobody is gonna be able to catch your epic monk anyway, so why nerf them? How about a lvl 15 monk going faster than a lvl 25 monk? The fact that this is possible is maybe a bit much, especially if this continues on where you have epic monks in LA outruning DMs? Not sure if it gets to that point, or caps earlier.
As for your jealousy towards DD, most of us are players that have been on this server a long time. The relics are the only real thing to do, so why not spend all our time keeping them home? Its the only real challenge on this server so far. Leveling toons over and over just to have something else to beat on people over and over with gets boring. Tired of us hoarding the relics? Wait for the 'next best thing' then we'll kick everyones butt at that and you can have the relics
Anyway, monk + LA is faster than it should be, bad monk build is no exucse for needing to outrun everyone, dont like it build something else. There's more important stuff on the dev plate atm, and this topic has been beaten to death.
Lockage anyone?
As for your jealousy towards DD, most of us are players that have been on this server a long time. The relics are the only real thing to do, so why not spend all our time keeping them home? Its the only real challenge on this server so far. Leveling toons over and over just to have something else to beat on people over and over with gets boring. Tired of us hoarding the relics? Wait for the 'next best thing' then we'll kick everyones butt at that and you can have the relics
Anyway, monk + LA is faster than it should be, bad monk build is no exucse for needing to outrun everyone, dont like it build something else. There's more important stuff on the dev plate atm, and this topic has been beaten to death.
Lockage anyone?
-
Death Dealer1
- PKer
- Posts: 1263
- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:59 pm
- Location: the land of aaahhhhh's, where dorothy lives ;)
when a monk from LA with the token can run across the zone faster than you can log into it...there is something wrong. the token and any other char can still manage to out run a hasted person...no one really cares if they can out run you. when a monk uses it to get +200% movement speed that actually outruns targeting with a caster...thats insane.
when a lvl 10-15 monk with a token can out run a pure lvl 40...thats ludicrous. thats the only thing here. not DD is beating me up. DD won't give me relics. DD this or DD that....
its a player with a few monk lvls and a LA messenger token can outrun anything on the server hasted. there in lies a problem.
oh, and drow darkness is supposed to be 1/round per char lvl...and it never really has been for some reason.
when a lvl 10-15 monk with a token can out run a pure lvl 40...thats ludicrous. thats the only thing here. not DD is beating me up. DD won't give me relics. DD this or DD that....
its a player with a few monk lvls and a LA messenger token can outrun anything on the server hasted. there in lies a problem.
oh, and drow darkness is supposed to be 1/round per char lvl...and it never really has been for some reason.
if i didn't do it...someone else would have.
-
Metis
- Dungeon Master
- Posts: 1290
- Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:17 pm
- Location: Entering the dark world where devs live
Give the man a chance to figure it out...Netrom.dk wrote:You cannot cast haste twice on youself as you could before. About the messenger token, I'm not sure why thats stacking with monk speed since I've tried to fix that once before, I'll look into it again one of these days
"Wheresoever you go,
go with all your heart." - Confucius
go with all your heart." - Confucius