tweaking level restrictions on gear

[dbosity_ns3]

Something that seems to be a little out of whack to me is how the level restrictions on gear, especially weapons, are done. The best in game weapons are the Triton weapons, which are set for level 28. But so are many of the EC weapons, such as twilight kamas, scimitar of change, etc. What doesn't make sense is that in order to get the EC weapons, you would have to do the EC run. What is the point of the EC weapons if you are getting goop on the way to EC anyhow? Also, many weapons dropped in Starfall are also lvl 28 restricted but are not as good as a Triton. Many of these weapons are good weapons but seem to be rendered moot by the fact that you can use these weapons at the same level as the Tritons. What I propose is to allow these weapons to be used at an intermediary stage between level 18 to 28. Maybe at level 23 or something. Or perhaps set those weapons at the original triton level restriction of lvl 25 and up the Triton level restriction to say level 30. Having this extra weapon level restriction would add a practical value to these weapons for pre-triton weapons.

[Killim1_ns3]

I like the idea of not having a Triton weapon until level 38. This makes all those other weapons from Twilight and other areas more valuable. I am sure this suggestion will not make many people happy.

I would add to this as well. Enslaved gear should be changed to be 18-28 type gear. I am not sure about other players, but I normally don't change from enslaved gear until 28 on a lot of my builds. The 18-28 gear in most cases is not as good as enslaved.

Again, I am sure most people don't want to hear my recommended changes. But I would ask the staff to consider my proposals.

[NOMAD_CA_ns3]

I do agree that the ec weapons should be lvl 23. The triton at 30 is a different story however. I think that unless a new lvl 28+ leveling area making the tritons lvl 30 will overcrowd the ec run area up to the decisoin with people leveling.

[duodave_ns3]

The only flaw I see with the change moving EC gear to level 28 (previously 23) is there seems to be an exp gap in the mid 20s where your exp per kill plummets yet you can't go on an ec run until you're level 28.

I used to play another MUD with a similar issue, we called it "hell level".

I don't know what can be done about that - perhaps some middle thing between levels 23-28 that is slightly higher in exp. But, I don't agree with moving tritons to later to encourage use of twilight or starfall weapons - that simply doesn't make sense. It's lots easier to get EC weapons than it is twilight or starfall gear.

[Gilradden_ns3]

I think dbosity had it right regarding making SF and EC weapons being lvl 23 restricted. Also the new Dorf citadel gear is good but shouldn't be lvl 28 restricted because it isn't better than triton and NS gear! It makes no sense to have good gear rendered useless because there is something better available. SF, Twilight and Citadel gear should be level 23 in my opinion! It makes sense and it gives players some good gear to use between 18 and 28. It would also allow lower level players to go on those runs and get the XP that is pretty good at those areas. It might be a burden to the level 40s on the runs as far as res'ing more often but it would also make it that much more interesting to make the run...lol

[dbosity_ns3]

No problem on that extra rez's for lower level tagalongs to the citadel there. With an alien recharger you can virtually rez forever, plus make some spare traveling cash by charging them 100,000 gold a rez j/k

Regarding the change of NS gear to lvl 28, I never had a problem with that since NS gear should be for the high level epic toons. It's the best in the game. I just thought it might be interesting to see more of the other non-NS gear be useful before it is time to upgrade. There is plenty of good unrestricted gear. Aside from the really good G1 items, there does seem to be a lack of mid-20's gear available. One thing I do want to avoid is to have too many different level restrictions. Since the item descriptions have no indication of the level restriction, we should probably limit the number of different level restrictions. It is a good system to keep the level restrictions simple.

Ugh, I think I said level restrictions too many times, but I'm too lazy to go back and edit

[Pros_ns3]

So maybe change where the goop drops to a few of the harder EC areas?

[dbosity_ns3]

I don't see how that would make the non-triton weapons more viable. The issue is that since triton weapons and lvl 28 non-triton weapons are attainable at the same levels, most people wouldn't bother with those weapons and just go straight to the tritons. Moving the goop drop to a tougher area wouldn't change anything since the other weapons drop in very hard areas already. Since both are equally difficult to get, why waste time with non-tritons? Might as well go straight for the triton. I'm not speaking about whether the triton is hard enough to get or whether goop needs to drop somewhere else. I just thought it would be interesting to make some of the other weapons more than just unusual drops to be sold at the merchants.

[Nanuk_ns3]

Of course the other option is to bump up the Twilight weapons to be as good as Tritons, but with maybe different damage bonuses, special abilities, class restrictions or some such, kinda like the Green Destiny katana (which, incidentally I saw for the first time just the other day).

Since to get Twilight weapons you actually have to have been to EC it doesn't make a lot of sense to me for them to be poorer than a Triton. Their drop frequency could be made less frequent if folks are concerned about this making the Tritons redundant...

Of course for Starfall, Citadel, etc weapons where you don't have to go via EC to get them the case for making them more grunty isn't quite as strong. In these instances maybe lowering level restrictions is a better way to go...

Just my $0.02

[DM PHANTASM_ns3]

i have been thinking about his for a while and here is my 2 copper pieces...


Have the goop drop in 2 pieces one drops in twilight and the other in DwP

this will solve alot you will have to be at least 38 to go into DwP to get your triton and it will make all those other weapons viable.

[cherie_pits_ns3]

Phant that is a good way to make it more of a badge of honor! The weapon could be a true Epic weapon that you have to get a goop from each epic area and turn in kinda like the dragon stone quest... that would be so cool!

[senor_silly_ns3]

This thread has given me an interesting idea. I suggest the creation of a new class of super weapon the "Ophion". I'd say use the Triton base set and triple everything on them. In order to obtain this new weapon however you must prove your worth. I'd suggest a new "arena" area that allows the user to embark upon the quest for Ophion. This area would allow other players to view the epic attempt.

As this weapon is so desirable the peril of attaining it must be fitting. Failure to defeat the guardian of the Ophion results in the immediate deletion of that character. The task at hand: defeat the exploit avenger.

[Nanuk_ns3]

Just one quick thought on your idea Phant. There would need to be good pre-triton epic weapons (twilight equivalent) for all weapon types if this is implemented, otherwise you will find that there are a whole bunch of toons running around all wielding the same weapon type (lots of twilight kukri WM's etc) which, to my mind, would reduce some of the unique flavour of NS. At least the way it is at the moment their is no disincentive to create toons that use pretty much any weapon in the game. Obviously some are better than others as it is, but the differences between tritons at the moment aren't significantly broad to limit their use to a few standard types...

[DM Mistress-X_ns3]

I think that is a good idea Phant...at least that would stop players when they hit 28 to thinking the have to go on an EC run right then. Have you guys every looked any any of the weapons that fall on the way to EC? Its all level 18. Also there the a very nice long sword that can be attained thought DR quest. Some nice weapon fall up in Giant mountain. There is a level of Dwarves before the Citadel that drops some pretty good gear that has no level restrictons. Enslaved weapon there again no restriction. OK so lets list these weapon.
No level restictions
Dwarfs
Kamma, Long sword, Battleaxes, hammer, Fire slicer and mage gear.
Enslaved
[censored] sword, kikiri, dirk, waraxe, mace and morning star.
end of south tower
Katana
Lets not forget Draco he has a couple of good weapons too and the Keeper drops a nice scythe
Did I forget anything?
I know for a personal fact alot of these weapons have taken me to level 40 with no problem.
level 18 and above
Weapons on the way to EC.
Elemental Shrine Long sword, [censored] Sword and Scimmitar
Eveything up in LP and G1
there is all kind of weapons to be found at this level. I dont even have the time to list them all.
level 28 and above
Starfall
twilight
Citadel
anyone ever hear of the Dragonstone weapon quest?
Players have gotten to use to going to EC and getting the trition that they have forgotten all the other great weapons out there.
I say Phant has the right idea...lets get some of these other weapons in play!

[dbosity_ns3]

All of the above sound pretty good. I don't know about the Ophion thing. Tritons are already pretty darn good. However, the threat of deleting your toon is probably sufficient to deter casual questing for that weapon. Regarding the two goop drop. Would that mean that the first goop gets you one version of the triton and the second goop will boost it, similar in the way ns armor will be boosted by twilight shards? Or are you suggesting that you would have to have both goops to get the triton? Either concept sounds interesting.