Strengthening fighters v. casters

Spura · Post by **Spura** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:23 am

MasterYoda wrote: Anyways mabey something as little as a high SR item for only melee types would help alot to ballance them vs casters...

You don't get it. 32 is max SR for items, that's also why drow only get that high of a SR. 32 SR won't help fighter squat once mages reach lvl 40. As for constructivness, I pointed out the flaws, I didn't post any suggestions as they are ignored and in this case I also don't see anything that could be done short of nerfing bigby spells and IGMS.

seriouslynow · Post by **seriouslynow** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:02 pm

Elagneros wrote:I'm pretty sure a forced unequip can be scripted so as to keep equipment on certain classes.

I've seen this done before to prevent UMD abuse on certain items. It allows dedication to a class to be rewarded with something unique. IMO it's a good way to counter how clerics make melee classes obsolete in several regards.

MasterYoda · Post by **MasterYoda** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:26 pm

DMs Devs and developers can do whatever they want ........

If they want a cloak with immune to supras complaints.... they can make it ......

Suggestions supra, not im right your wrong .... cmon man i dont want to have to make you look like an idiot here be HELPFULL!!!!!!!!!!!!

and clerics are not all that..... i have seen Bard RDDs own them..... WM with minor buffs....

Clerics are great .... my fav class..... but you have to know how to build them.......

And alot of the people your comparing clerics vs melees against is an unfair comparison...

What if the meleer was a noobcake and the cleric was a long time vet?

The cleric would of corse smash their face in....

And clerics still need time to buff to their full potiential.

CrazyJ · Post by **CrazyJ** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:31 pm

Another, no-script way of implementing.

Item of SR
+x SR
-2 INT,WIS,CHA

Melee classes wouldn't see any real disadvantage in combat (except against Mind Flayers), but casters would.

$chase$ · Post by **$chase$** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:20 pm

Spura wrote: I didn't post any suggestions as they are ignored.

lmao

MasterYoda · Post by **MasterYoda** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:39 pm

$chase$ wrote:
Spura wrote: I didn't post any suggestions as they are ignored.

lmao

CHASE your my hero !!!!!!

but i was doing some testing and side by side .... unbuffed a decent fighter tears through a decent cleric or mage....

When the caster is fully buffed the mage and cleric win hande down...

Mabey all the fighters in the world need to look for groups.....

I know whenever io use my mage or casting based cleric i allways shout ,

"Level x Caster LF Tank" i usually get multiple replies for the fact tanks turn into killing machines with buffs to back them up.

And supra..... make a suggestion that doesnt staryt with "I am better than you " or "MY WORD IS RULE!!!!!" and it might get considered

Spura · Post by **Spura** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:48 am

Well if you want my suggestion:

Nerf IGMS by capping damage per single target, nerf bigbies by reverting to old scripts and lowering disc DC.

Kromix · Post by **Kromix** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:08 am

IGMS where nerfed badly, they are useles vs a mob!!!

bigsbies have no "DC" they have checks on discipline/str/other/and no check depending on whick hand...

your sugestions are as bad as your exclamations...

MasterYoda · Post by **MasterYoda** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:30 pm

Spura wrote:Well if you want my suggestion:

Nerf IGMS by capping damage per single target, nerf bigbies by reverting to old scripts and lowering disc DC.

I meant make a good suggestion......

next time ill be more clear ..... good effort though........

Shieldcracker · Post by **Shieldcracker** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:31 pm

but i was doing some testing and side by side .... unbuffed a decent fighter tears through a decent cleric or mage....

When the caster is fully buffed the mage and cleric win hande down...

Mabey all the fighters in the world need to look for groups.....

I know whenever io use my mage or casting based cleric i allways shout ,

"Level x Caster LF Tank" i usually get multiple replies for the fact tanks turn into killing machines with buffs to back them up.

I don't like this idea too much: relegating fighters and warriors to second-class citizens, helpless on their own against a caster that casts? (Your test against casters without spells is somewhat supercilious: might want to test out casters against unarmed weapon masters, too.) Maybe I'm too much the hopeless egalitarian, but that idea doesn't sit well with me.

I'm sure something can be worked out to the benefit of non-casters: the big thing, of course, is avoiding the abuse of UMD from a single level of rogue. I definitely like Celorn's idea of tying it to a physical ability: that would preclude just about all casters.

Though, I have to say, it would be hard to find that sweet spot between useless spell resistance and "why would I play a monk when warriors get just as much" spell resistance. Perhaps there's another option that doesn't rely on bumping up a warrior's spell resistance. Though the only one I can think of that doesn't rely on nerfing spells (something I definitely don't favor) is spell level absorption, and that'd be even more problematic than spell resistance.

Is there a third option, or is the general consensus that spell resistance is the way to go?

MasterYoda · Post by **MasterYoda** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:08 pm

Spell absorption would be a gread alternative......

Post by **Mr. O'Dearly** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:47 pm

would it be possible to have an item with AOE X% spell failure. maybe 10-20 feet, something close seeing as how theyre fighters and should be getting close up anyways.

MasterYoda · Post by **MasterYoda** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:00 pm

Mr. O'Dearly wrote:would it be possible to have an item with AOE X% spell failure. maybe 10-20 feet, something close seeing as how theyre fighters and should be getting close up anyways.

LOL just ask your friendly neighborhood cleric to cast extended haste and extended silence LOL

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:15 pm

JesterOI wrote:Having a vendor that provides potions to only certain character classes would be great as well. Make some crusty sour merchant that hates the big 3 spellslingers in Avendell that sells potions only to builds that don't include cleric, wiz, or sorc. And make those potions non-drop.
As far as I know you could toss a unique ability on to that potion and get some really cool custom effects.

A shop like this would help a lot. Even let it just sell potions that already drop, but only to builds without any big spell casting class levels (wiz, sorc, cleric, or druid).
Also, have the merchant do a character level check on the player so that the merchant can sell potions fitting the level of the player.

I know that players can already go to other players to get potions made, but this can be a real hassle. Having an NPC that can do this instead (even at slightly higher prices than buying from a PC) would probably cure a lot of headaches.

CrazyJ · Post by **CrazyJ** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:37 pm

Nobody liked my idea above of items that give penalties to caster-relevant stats while conferring spell resistance?

Alternative to SR: Items that give + bonuses to saves against all types of magical effects.... I think pretty much every spell has a saving throw, it's just that some (Bigsby) are hard to make. Something that duplicates the Spellcraft save bonus would probably do the trick. +10 to saves vs spells should go a long ways towards helping.