Undead Graft

lord_modred · Post by **lord_modred** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:26 am

i came upon a startling realization a few minutes ago, undead graft is a useless power. not the power it's self, on touch paralysis(let alone on touch death) is actually a very useful ability... but the DC is 17... 17!
lvl 10 characters can easily over come that save, and therefore the graft is rendered useless at any level.
proposed solution: make the DC for it operate in exacrtly the way the assasin death attack does. set the save as follows 10+palemasters class level+int modifier=DC save. this would make the undead graft an actual useful power. and considering the vast amount of spellcasting ability that the PM sacrifices, i think it would make sense that the powers it gets in exchange would actually be useful.

now i know everyone is going to start screaming about how powerful the hand of death summon is and how PM's already have all the power they need. well consider this, you get the hand of death summon at what level? lvl 40. now tell me, how many people have lvl 40 characters(not including DM or bought characters)? none so far. and in the period that the PM doesnt have the hand of death, it's not overwhelmingly powerful. it's good, but not great. and additionally, the undead grafts powers can be used 2-3 times a day, so it's not as if a PM of lvl 25 is going to come into NS city and hand of death everyone in the city.

thank you for your consideration

Post by **LinuxPup** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:10 pm

Assuming the undead graft arm's DC can be changed I wouldn't make it intelligence based... either intelligence or charisma, based on what type of caster (wiz, sorc, or bard), or maybe dex.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:15 pm

INT + CHA how about that? Makes sense.

Post by **Yonwe** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:05 pm

Rather than using an ability mod, using Necro focus grabs me as a bit more balanced... it raises the save in a more stable ways, since the DC goes up at epic levels anyways; a level 40 PM with Epic Necro added into the save would make the DC 33. And yes, 33 is lower than the ~40 of death spells from a caster of that level, it's a tradeoff for having a death effect 3/day without needing to spend spell slots on it.

lord_modred · Post by **lord_modred** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:35 pm

the problem with that is the trade off isnt really a balanced one, DC33 just wont effect anything in epic levels so having a dc 33 death effect is essentially the same as not having the ability. it's only practical purpose would be to harrass lowbies.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:41 pm

Which is why the Fail Save on 1 should be turned back on.
5% chance for anything to work.
Things would be a lot more interesting.

Post by **Sparky** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:16 pm

Unless you're stacked with + saves against death gear, a class with poor fort saves will get wrecked by a 33 death save unless they have of course, immunity through spells.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think spellcraft ranks or Protection from Spells give added saves against the graft, as its a non spell effect.
Therefore classes that normally can pull mid to high 30's for a spell save will find themselves in the low 20's against this graft. This is all of course, provided something like Shadow Shield isn't running, and if spellcraft ranks and protection from spells do not increase the saves against the effect.

Death Dealer1 · Post by **Death Dealer1** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:30 pm

the DC on my lvl 28PM graft is 20 to kill someone. i got me a lvl 12 monk with it as he had rolled about a 5. it did take me all of my chances to finally get it. upping the DC to even 33 would be a nice bonus to it.

lord_modred · Post by **lord_modred** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:36 pm

perfecr example, a lvl 28 should not need to rely on a roll of a 5 in order to kill a level 12 player. he's more than twice his level, that guy should have been toast on the first use of the ability.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:58 pm

Sparky wrote:Unless you're stacked with + saves against death gear, a class with poor fort saves will get wrecked by a 33 death save unless they have of course, immunity through spells.

Wrecked by a 33DC? Are you joking?
Maybe learn how to build a decent build and the proper gear to use on the server and you'll learn how to talk a little more sense.

Post by **LinuxPup** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:00 pm

Maybe change the DC from 12 + (pm lvls/2) to:

12 + (pm lvls) - 4

That way a char with 30 pm lvls, who would obviously be a lvl 40 char would have a DC of 38. The -4 modifier is there just in case the spellcraft bonuses don't apply since its not a spell.