Strengthening fighters v. casters

CrazyJ · Post by **CrazyJ** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:56 pm

Disclaimer: My highest-level character on this server is 13.

I've noticed on the forums that a lot of people seem to take the view that clerics and mages (in that order) are the most powerful characters on the server, especially with epic summons. I think this may warrant a slight bit of re-balancing... especially since there are no really good AI mages (as far as I know AI mages just start at the top of their spell list and go down) to counter them.... PvM is always mage vs fighter-types.

I've also noticed that there are amulets and cloaks that give extra spells to every single caster type. And what do non-casters get for cloaks and amulets? Cha boosts (useless except for Paladin/BG), Wisdom boosts (woo, +3 to Will saves), and minor saving throw improvements vs. fire/cold. There aren't even any + armor amulets until at least level 9... Non-caster characters are seriously gypped in the amulet & cloak department. As a pure barb at this point (with 1 of my 2 chars) I have no reason to purchase cloaks or amulets as they don't provide anything useful to me... at level 5 the only reason a fighter might buy either is to get a +1 to his will save.

I suggest adding some more amulets of various levels.... things like
Amulet of Spell Warding (+x to saves vs spells)
Cloak of Evasion (bonus feat: evasion)
Amulet of Armor Skin (+x to Natural AC)
Amulets of elemental resistance (fire, cold, acid, electrical, etc.)
Amulets of spell resistance (needs to be semi-weak so that it doesn't nerf casters).
Ring of Death (-4 to constitution, immunity to spell school: Necromancy)
Cowl of Mental Focusing (+ to concentration, bonus feat: slippery mind)

These will help fighters last longer under magical attack, but they won't by any means make them immune to casters.
Should be fairly easy to implement.

AggieDan · Post by **AggieDan** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:52 am

There are plenty of items that give you the bonuses that you ae looking for.

There are many pieces of armour that give increases to SR.

As well as amulets that increase natural AC.

Rings, helmets, boots, cloaks, bracers that all offer increases to AC as well. Granted, you have to learn to mix and match. Most of these don't really get good until you're up to level 13 or 16 gear.

Also, much of the master artisan crafted items give nice bonuses as well.

Overall, melee characters do have a lot of bonuses that are available to them. Plus, there is the prospect of getting some buffs from a magic user as well.

Nemesis Revised · Post by **Nemesis Revised** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:19 am

uhm, imagine a char taking a 19wiz or sorc taking one fighter level. he'll have access to such items you just mentioned.

an alternative would be to create a fighter's storeshop wherein only fighters that have 16+ levels of fighter-type-classes (fighters, barbs, rangers, paladins, BGs, etc.) would be able to purchase items that only THEY can use with the proper class-levels (16+).

lordvan52681 · Post by **lordvan52681** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:37 am

the problem with that is UMD. A wizard with 1 rogue lvl can max UMD and have access to anything on the server.

CrazyJ · Post by **CrazyJ** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:34 am

A wizard who got those items would be giving up extra spells, extra int, etc. Not such a good deal for him probably.

I must be looking in the wrong places for rings, amulets, and cloaks. I don't recally exactly what Ave has, but I know the items through 13 are missing everything I suggested above.

MasterYoda · Post by **MasterYoda** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:40 pm

CrazyJ wrote:A wizard who got those items would be giving up extra spells, extra int, etc. Not such a good deal for him probably.

I must be looking in the wrong places for rings, amulets, and cloaks. I don't recally exactly what Ave has, but I know the items through 13 are missing everything I suggested above.

but you have to realize with casters ..... damage spells are all capped at 25..... or at least thats the highest ive seen.....

so by going only 25 caster your not really taking too bad of a hit to your casting..... especially if your going to get epic spell penetration... that really helps alot.....

I curently have a level 26 22sorc/1pali/3rdd and he realy doesnt suffer much at all considering all you need is level 18 to gain the full efect of wails, FoD, and summoning ....... and on top of that bigsbies help lots too...

True if you go up against a monk type of char with crazy high spell resistance then you will get owned ....... but casters in general get beat down by SR monks anyways.....

CrazyJ · Post by **CrazyJ** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:14 pm

I'm looking for a way to give fighters a bit of SR too basically... not nearly to the point that monks have it but enough to help them stand up to caters a bit better.

lordvan52681 · Post by **lordvan52681** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:35 pm

CrazyJ wrote:A wizard who got those items would be giving up extra spells, extra int, etc. Not such a good deal for him probably.

They would only have to wear one item for their spellcasting and then use the others. for an example, a wizard with 1 rogue lvl maxes UMD. he wears a helm to increase his spellcasting and he could still take all of those nice ammulets, rings, and cloaks you mentioned.

Untill they find a way around UMD, there is no way to make good gear for 1 class only, or for all except certain classes.

CrazyJ · Post by **CrazyJ** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:19 pm

Who ever said it had to be limited to a specific class?

I'm not talking really high-powered items... the most they'd do for a caster is make him a bit more resistant to other casters, and even then only to specific types of spells.

Celorn · Post by **Celorn** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:56 pm

Hmm.. i wonder if there's a way to script the equip-item thing to check a base stat instead of the normal class, race or lawful etc... something beyond UMD.

ie: a +5 kukri that can only be equipped if you have 25 (or more) dexterity?

This way, UMD is overridden. The other option is to make scripted quests with non-drop rewards.

MasterYoda · Post by **MasterYoda** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:30 pm

Celorn wrote:This way, UMD is overridden. The other option is to make scripted quests with non-drop rewards.

This would be awesome

Elagneros · Post by **Elagneros** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:34 am

I'm pretty sure a forced unequip can be scripted so as to keep equipment on certain classes.

Spura · Post by **Spura** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:08 am

This is completely wrong.

1. SR sucks. You can only get good SR as a monk or cleric or druid. Max SR on items is 32, something like lvl 30 caster with few penetration feats has easy time piercing. Not to mention the mord -10 SR. SR won't solve anything.

2. Saves suck. It is not like many people use any save spells past wail which barbs shouldn't have much problems resisting. Problematical spells are bigbies, especially for dexers(yay for devs making them STR checks instead of disc checks), and IGMS. Most people have fair chance vs other spells, but 170 magical damage and constant damage and knockdowns of bigby are very powerful and none of those spells involve a save. Not to mention you can get +saves already on helm, amulet, boots and belts.

MasterYoda · Post by **MasterYoda** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:25 pm

Spura wrote:This is completely wrong.

1. SR sucks. You can only get good SR as a monk or cleric or druid. Max SR on items is 32, something like lvl 30 caster with few penetration feats has easy time piercing. Not to mention the mord -10 SR. SR won't solve anything.

2. Saves suck. It is not like many people use any save spells past wail which barbs shouldn't have much problems resisting. Problematical spells are bigbies, especially for dexers(yay for devs making them STR checks instead of disc checks), and IGMS. Most people have fair chance vs other spells, but 170 magical damage and constant damage and knockdowns of bigby are very powerful and none of those spells involve a save. Not to mention you can get +saves already on helm, amulet, boots and belts.

Man be constructive..... are all your posts about how you think your oppinion is RULE man either be helpfull or shut up....

Anyways mabey something as little as a high SR item for only melee types would help alot to ballance them vs casters...

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:06 pm

SR would be great in p\/\/ning the cheese from lower level n00b mages.
Having a vendor that provides potions to only certain character classes would be great as well. Make some crusty sour merchant that hates the big 3 spellslingers in Avendell that sells potions only to builds that don't include cleric, wiz, or sorc. And make those potions non-drop.
As far as I know you could toss a unique ability on to that potion and get some really cool custom effects.

I have never seen a mage p\/\/n anyone his own level or higher in the movies... He's always gotten lucky or when he did p\/\/n he p\/\/nd noobz!

P.S. ha found me a way of skipping the pwn script