Shifter development intentions
Shifter development intentions
Ok...
with the tweaks going into dragon form, I expect there will be renewed interest in shifters as a whole. I know my next toon will be a shifter so that I can enjoy the new dragon form.
With this renewed interest will also come renewed confusion. Shifters are fun and all... but.. well, they're screwy. One of the most confusing aspects of shifters is their AB. The armed forms are pretty straightforward.. the feats that you would expect to work, do work. But, the unarmed forms are a bit trickier. (FYI - all of this discussion is based on 'actual' AB from the combat window, not character sheet).
A few examples:
-it appears that weapon focus: unarmed works for unarmed forms (ie - Iron Golem), however, EPIC weapon focus: unarmed does not seem to be effective
-Blaskor and I were trying to run a few tests. He has a lvl 40 druid build with dragon shape. When he shifted to dragon, his AB was 57. The script tells him that his weapon merged, which seemed accurate. The damage was appropriate for the equipped weapon. When he un-equipped the weapon and shifted, his AB remained at 57. How is this possible if the weapon is shifting?
There are other examples, but those are just a few.
There is also a lot of misinformation (some of which I may be responsible for) floating around out there in between "here's how it works on the dojo" and "in the PnP game, it works like this" and "well, I think it worked on this one dude this one time" and the custom scripts that we don't really have access to. Because of all the confusion and because none of the players have an efficient way to test all this, I'm asking the devs to lay it all out for us.
Specifically, here's what I'm after. I understand that the forms are still in flux and not finalized, so any testing I could do now would be moot even if I could level that many toons. All that I'm after is for one of the Devs to comment on how they intend for shifter forms to eventually work. I realize that this is asking you to break Software Development Rule 1: Don't claim to do something until you've actually done it. And tested it. 6 times. However, I promise that if things don't end up the way you indicate in response to this post, I won't get all bent out of shape. If you just don't feel comfortable posting something like that on the public board, I'd be perfectly happy with a PM (and no, I won't repost the PM info!)
Here are the specific questions I'd like answered:
1. Will weapon focus unarmed increase the AB of Iron Golem?
2. Will weapon focus unarmed increase the AB of Dragon Form?
3. Will epic weapon focus unarmed increase the AB of Iron Golem?
4. Will epic weapon focus unarmed increase the AB of Dragon Form?
5. Will attack bonus from weapons merge to all forms?
6. Will attack bonus from gauntlents merge to unarmed forms?
or, alternately, a detailed discussion on how AB will be calculated for Iron Golem and Dragon based on Base AB, weapon modifiers, stat modifiers, feats, etc.
I'd really appreciate it if someone "in the know" could comment on this subject. I think there are a lot of other players who would also like to have access to this information. It would save a lot of people a lot of headache, heartburn, and wasted feats!
Thanks!
with the tweaks going into dragon form, I expect there will be renewed interest in shifters as a whole. I know my next toon will be a shifter so that I can enjoy the new dragon form.
With this renewed interest will also come renewed confusion. Shifters are fun and all... but.. well, they're screwy. One of the most confusing aspects of shifters is their AB. The armed forms are pretty straightforward.. the feats that you would expect to work, do work. But, the unarmed forms are a bit trickier. (FYI - all of this discussion is based on 'actual' AB from the combat window, not character sheet).
A few examples:
-it appears that weapon focus: unarmed works for unarmed forms (ie - Iron Golem), however, EPIC weapon focus: unarmed does not seem to be effective
-Blaskor and I were trying to run a few tests. He has a lvl 40 druid build with dragon shape. When he shifted to dragon, his AB was 57. The script tells him that his weapon merged, which seemed accurate. The damage was appropriate for the equipped weapon. When he un-equipped the weapon and shifted, his AB remained at 57. How is this possible if the weapon is shifting?
There are other examples, but those are just a few.
There is also a lot of misinformation (some of which I may be responsible for) floating around out there in between "here's how it works on the dojo" and "in the PnP game, it works like this" and "well, I think it worked on this one dude this one time" and the custom scripts that we don't really have access to. Because of all the confusion and because none of the players have an efficient way to test all this, I'm asking the devs to lay it all out for us.
Specifically, here's what I'm after. I understand that the forms are still in flux and not finalized, so any testing I could do now would be moot even if I could level that many toons. All that I'm after is for one of the Devs to comment on how they intend for shifter forms to eventually work. I realize that this is asking you to break Software Development Rule 1: Don't claim to do something until you've actually done it. And tested it. 6 times. However, I promise that if things don't end up the way you indicate in response to this post, I won't get all bent out of shape. If you just don't feel comfortable posting something like that on the public board, I'd be perfectly happy with a PM (and no, I won't repost the PM info!)
Here are the specific questions I'd like answered:
1. Will weapon focus unarmed increase the AB of Iron Golem?
2. Will weapon focus unarmed increase the AB of Dragon Form?
3. Will epic weapon focus unarmed increase the AB of Iron Golem?
4. Will epic weapon focus unarmed increase the AB of Dragon Form?
5. Will attack bonus from weapons merge to all forms?
6. Will attack bonus from gauntlents merge to unarmed forms?
or, alternately, a detailed discussion on how AB will be calculated for Iron Golem and Dragon based on Base AB, weapon modifiers, stat modifiers, feats, etc.
I'd really appreciate it if someone "in the know" could comment on this subject. I think there are a lot of other players who would also like to have access to this information. It would save a lot of people a lot of headache, heartburn, and wasted feats!
Thanks!
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1 question, did u use the character sheet or the combat text for your ab findings? the character sheet is innacurate as the game is hard coded to read animal/monster form damage and calculate it from their creature weapon not from the player weapon, the combat text will reveal the truth...
also there is only so much they could do to help shifters.... how the forms react to shifts for example is probably hard coded and would require a hak (not gunna happen).... but what gear melds and the forms base stats are scripted...
sorry that im not 1 of the insiders and i am answering, i used to dev for another server and shifters were 1 of my favs so i kno a bit about how they work server side...
also there is only so much they could do to help shifters.... how the forms react to shifts for example is probably hard coded and would require a hak (not gunna happen).... but what gear melds and the forms base stats are scripted...
sorry that im not 1 of the insiders and i am answering, i used to dev for another server and shifters were 1 of my favs so i kno a bit about how they work server side...
The first step was actually just setting the merge items switch to 'on' in the Shifters 2da file. What is considered 'items' is debateable as in some cases what should be considered an item doesn't merge and other things that aren't in the item category do. So its not an exact science as far as my minimal experience in this shifter area has proven.
I think in some cases also, some of these critters that we switched 'on' had some kind of conflict and may have caused server crashes.
You can take a look at your shifter.2da file (I think thats the file name) and look at line 71, 72, and 73 (the dragon forms...around those line numbers) and see that the second to last column is where we set it to '1' instead of '****' or '0'. I'm thinking that perhaps the '****' was meant to not be used so this could also be a problem. Usually the '0' is off and the '1' is on.
I think in some cases also, some of these critters that we switched 'on' had some kind of conflict and may have caused server crashes.
You can take a look at your shifter.2da file (I think thats the file name) and look at line 71, 72, and 73 (the dragon forms...around those line numbers) and see that the second to last column is where we set it to '1' instead of '****' or '0'. I'm thinking that perhaps the '****' was meant to not be used so this could also be a problem. Usually the '0' is off and the '1' is on.
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Been playing with my 36th Druid and noticing some odd stuff.
All the animal forms (regular and improved) merge everything but weapon.
All the elemental forms (regular and improved) merge nothing. Despite that in vanilla NWN they merge armor.
The Shapeshift spell is most useful in Balor or Fire Giant forms, because although the models appear to be unarmed they actually are armed and merge weapons (in addition to everything else). In fact, Balor is flat out the best shape unless you know you're going to have to absorb a bunch of fire damage.
All the animal forms (regular and improved) merge everything but weapon.
All the elemental forms (regular and improved) merge nothing. Despite that in vanilla NWN they merge armor.
The Shapeshift spell is most useful in Balor or Fire Giant forms, because although the models appear to be unarmed they actually are armed and merge weapons (in addition to everything else). In fact, Balor is flat out the best shape unless you know you're going to have to absorb a bunch of fire damage.
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hey i was just wondering on the TC dojo i made a dragon that had 110ac and 66ab. so i decided to make it on neversumer i did everything exactly the same and i ended up with 106ac and 62ab? im kinda guessing that the devs capped the ac/ab? if any1 knows the answer can you plz post it lol so i kno wat happened.. ty =]
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kingubu wrote:Been playing with my 36th Druid and noticing some odd stuff.
All the animal forms (regular and improved) merge everything but weapon.
All the elemental forms (regular and improved) merge nothing. Despite that in vanilla NWN they merge armor.
The Shapeshift spell is most useful in Balor or Fire Giant forms, because although the models appear to be unarmed they actually are armed and merge weapons (in addition to everything else). In fact, Balor is flat out the best shape unless you know you're going to have to absorb a bunch of fire damage.
Shapechange spell duration is a bit lower than what the description says.... seems to be 1 round / level instead of 1 turn / level... has this been modified in NS or is it just a mistake with the spell description? I made a build purely to live in Balor form but I can't stay shifted for the longer battles against bosses.