Cleric Build

[Baatazu_ns3]

So your saying divine power doesnt just add to your base attack giving you a number of attacks equal to a fighter of your lvl, but in fact addes to your AB and gives you an extra attack similar to haste( which I am also guessing implies that it stacks with the bonus haste attack )? My first thought is: this is so not how the spell is supposed to work, now I know why there are so many clerics that act like tanks running around. Second: is this the way NWN scripted this spell to be or has it been changed for this mod? Lastly: with all the spell changing and class nurfing to save balance, why is this being left like this?

[DM ex Machina_ns3]

Do you actually play clerics? I wouldn't call for a class nerf until I'd played that class and a number of others extensively.

Certain cleric builds can be uber. Hats off to the builders. In my experience, I haven't found the top-of-the-line cleric builds to be any more uber than similarly well-built toons of other classes.

[Lorkar_ns3]

I am curious as to what order you might start your build. Do you lay your base and then progress into your focus or do you build to your epic and then complement? I have never really gotten into the mechanics of the game because I was always having enough to keep me occupied until now.

[Rocco_ns3]

It counts only for your Cleric levels, yes.

+1 AB for every 4 Cleric levels - I'm not sure if it was intentional but in ns3.5 you will get +8 AB for 37 or more levels of Cleric instead of the +4 AB you might expect.

If it was +1 for every four levels, then wouldn't a level 37 have a +9? and a level 40 a +10, or did I miss something?

[Anonymous_ns3]

Ahh yeah... +10 at Cleric level 37. Remember the Cleric base attack progression misses out a point at levels 1, 5, 9 etc... (last one at 37) as compared to a Fighter. So you get +10 at Cleric level 37, instead of the +5 you would normally get outside of ns3.5... so there you go, Cleric 37, Assassin 2, Monk 1... dual Kamas... a nice bulid :-¶

[Gruesome Wolf_ns3]

Hi,

I was hoping some of the build gods could help me with my cleric. There are a great many things I don't understand and with my schedule, its been hard to find out.

I created a lawful good human cleric named Samaratin Goodwill and have having a lot of fun with him. Divine power is way cool.

He is currently 18th level(after 2 days, thats good for me)

I want him to primarily be a caster cleric, but with SOME abilitity to fight, if need be. Everything I looked up over at bioware turned clerics into zen archers, but then neglected some of the spell aspects I want.

My final goals are:
Maximum spell penetration to beat SR.
Auto-quicken of all spells.
Epic Mage armor (if it is available to a cleric)
Epic Warding (if it is available to a cleric)

Those are definite goals.

What I want to do for practicality is monk, if it gets me that "Wisdom as AC" thingy.

And a level of Rogue to maximize tumble and UMD.

If I can't can't the wisdom for AC from a monk, is there any reason to have any monk? Would the rogue be sufficient then because I can max tumble with it and still get UMD?

I know nothing about monks and don't understand what benefits they give, and more importantly how many levels I need to get the benefits I seek.

If I don't have enough epic feats available for the full list there, I'd ditch the epic Mage armor and warding, because I definitely want to increase my wisdom to a level where it is maximized in its usefulness. I have heard of people having 50s, but I wonder if that is much more valuable than 46 or 48...

Last question. If I can do everything I want to above, are there certain levels at which I should take a rogue and monk level? (I have been assuming that I only need one of each, is THAT even true?)

Thanks.

P.S. I took the Magic and Good domains. Magic has worked out awsome so far and good has been, not so relevent. I liked the theme of good and thought turning outsiders sounded cool, but have never done so.

[Gruesome Wolf_ns3]

its funny what 15 minutes of reading will do for you...

I answered most of my own questions. I cannot take epic mage armor or warding...(DARN!!!) But I can have Ruin and hellball if I want them.

But unfortunately realized I screwed myself by not taking quicken spell before epic levels.

Between bonus feats and regular toon feats, I get 13 feats from 21-40.

Great Wisdom would account for 10. Automatic quicken would be 3... But I have to burn an epic feat slot on quicken, so I am a feat short.

If I could just delevel one level...

(Assuming +12 from gear)
The way the stat bonuses work, if I did choose to go with less than 50 wisdom, should I just go with 48, and free up 2 feats? Basically, can anyone tell me if 49 total wisdom is much better than 48? (Don't bonuses go with even stat numbers?)

I ask all this stuff with the assumption that auto-quicken is vitally important to a cast cleric, which seems to be true, unless I am not understanding something basic...

I have a question on spell penetration though. I read at bioware how there are caps on SR so that taking penetration feats are useless if you will have a certain level caster and large wisdom anyway.

Is this true? Without taking epic penetration, can I max out my spell penetration just by virtue of having, say, a 48 wisdom? Or is NS tweaked in a way that monster SR can be higher, so epic spell penetration is worth it to me even though I intend to be a 38th level cleric with a 48 wisdom.

[DM Xero_ns3]

Auto-Quicken is pretty much a waste, since haste gets you the extra spell per round anyway.

Spell penetration is definitely useful.

49 wis isn't really any better than 48.

Oh, and if you're thinking of taking rogue for tumble, monk gets tumble too. As for when to take the level, you'll want to hold out on your tumble class until at least 37 so you can get tumble to 40. An early monk level will make leveling easier because you'll be able to use the wis ac, but it's not critical. You could always just run around in full plate with a shield in the meantime.

[Forge_ns3]

This is just my two cents on cleric building.. take it or leave it.

I have never had a caster that used the auto-quicken feats. I have no idea why you are interested in them, but I've never missed them. With a high enough concentration score and AC, you rarely get interrupted, and with haste you can cast twice per round. I have heard that some people like that you can cast while on the run w/ auto-quicken.. but I don't think it is worth the feat cost.

For the WIS modifier, really the only beneficial thing that WIS will do for you is get you some bonus spells. You can pretty much assume that everything at high levels is going go make it's save, so you're better off using maximized spells or spells w/o a save (or both!). Typically, my cleric builds max out at a WIS score of 36.. and that's with gear! I don't miss it.. and the trade off is that I get pretty decent melee toon by spending stat points on a melee stat as well (either STR or DEX). IE - I can get my AB to 64 with buffs on a "caster" cleric. Very handy.

Monk levels and cleric.. about the only time I'd recommend monk levels on a cleric is if you are going to do some sort of dual kama or archery thing. As soon as you pick up a shield or put on heavy armor, you lose your monk AC bonus, which is one of the primary reasons to take monk. You have to have a pretty high WIS bonus to make it worth not taking a shield anyway, and as I've already mentioned, high WIS isn't all that important. So, any class that can get you tumble will work here, IMHO.

For beating SR, there are only a few things you can do. 1) have as many caster levels as possible and 2) take all the spell penetration feats. Ability scores and such do not impact beating SR at all.

[Gruesome Wolf_ns3]

Wow... as much as I thought I learned this morning about feats and character construction, there are a few things that are new to me that are irritating because of what I did to my poor wizard and was about to do to my cleric.

I had no idea that Haste effectively gave the same bonus as auto-quicken spell... Crap... 3 wasted epic feats on my 37th level wizard...

The other thing that just threw me for a loop was the notion that using a shield will cancel the Wisdom bonus to AC if I take a monk level. That sucks. I have every intention of having a shield and, in fact, already having him carrying a G1.

This was my intention for the remaining levels to salvage what I can:

B = Bonus Feat
GW = Great Wisdom

21 Cleric Improved Combat Casting
22 Cleric
23 Cleric B-Epic Spell Focus(Evocation)
24 Cleric Epic Spell Penetration
25 Cleric
26 Cleric B-GW1
27 Cleric GW2
28 Cleric
29 Cleric B-GW3
30 Cleric GW4
31 Cleric
32 Cleric B-GW5
33 Cleric GW6
34 Cleric
35 Cleric B-GW7
36 Cleric GW8
37 Cleric
38 Rogue
39 Cleric GW9, B - GW10
40 Cleric

Nice and simple and straightforward... Oh well. I learned alot anyway. Thanks for the clues everyone.

[Forge_ns3]

Carrying a shield absolutely, 100%, positively, CANCELS your monk WIS bonus.

In some of the older version, there was a glitch that would allow a monk to use a shield w/o penalty. However, that was fixed in a patch a while back and it no longer works. That could be causing some of your confusion, especially if you're been reading old threads over at bioware or whatever.

For this reason, many casters pursue the Auto Still spell line of feats so that they can wear heavy armor and use shields. Of course, clerics don't have to concern themselves with that

EDIT: And to answer your question... about the only reason I can think of to take monk would be to get the cleave feat for free, which can be somewhat useful. It is personal preference between monk or rogue, I would say.

[Gruesome Wolf_ns3]

Thanks man. I edited the above while you were replying based upon what you guys clued me into.

[DM Xero_ns3]

With great wis 10 you're likely going to have more AC if you take monk and ditch the shield. You miss out on the shield's damage soak of course, but personally I prefer the AC.

Also, you might want to consider dropping 2 great wis for greater ruin + hellball. One higher DC on your spells vs. about 1k damage per rest is a fair trade in my opinion. Of course, if you don't think you'll use the epic spells that much, then stick with the great wis.

[disastro_ns3]

With great wis 10 you're likely going to have more AC if you take monk and ditch the shield. You miss out on the shield's damage soak of course, but personally I prefer the AC.

Also, you might want to consider dropping 2 great wis for greater ruin + hellball. One higher DC on your spells vs. about 1k damage per rest is a fair trade in my opinion. Of course, if you don't think you'll use the epic spells that much, then stick with the great wis.

yes, if you get your wisdom bonus over +11(at wis==32), you will get better ac shieldless anyway with the monk level (I think the best shield I've seen gives +11 ac). additionally that will net you a much better touch attack ac than with shield. that plus the tumble bonuses can turn out into a quite nice AC. I take 2 levels of monk (one pretty early and the second at 37) just to make levelling more pleasant and max out the tumble bonus. it makes the game much more enjoyable for me that way.

if you're doing the weapon + shield concept you can probably crank back on your wisdom feats and put more into your attack stats, and take rogue for the tumble. I personally like the zen archer concept because it majorly monetizes a single stat for everything (ac, ab, more spells).

[Rocco_ns3]

Hi,

I was hoping some of the build gods could help me with my cleric. There are a great many things I don't understand and with my schedule, its been hard to find out.

I created a lawful good human cleric named Samaratin Goodwill and have having a lot of fun with him. Divine power is way cool.

He is currently 18th level(after 2 days, thats good for me)

I want him to primarily be a caster cleric, but with SOME abilitity to fight, if need be. Everything I looked up over at bioware turned clerics into zen archers, but then neglected some of the spell aspects I want.

That is because Zen Archers rock and you should take that hint if you plan on making a caster ceric.

My final goals are:
Maximum spell penetration to beat SR.

then you will need spell penetration, greater spell penetration and epic spell peneptration feats and 40 levels of cleric. Although, you stop gaining feats at level 38 as a straight cleric and the 2 points of SR you gain from those last to levels are better served by taking a fighter and monk level, or two monk levels or a paladin and a monk level. Notice a tread?

Auto-quicken of all spells.
Epic Mage armor (if it is available to a cleric)
Epic Warding (if it is available to a cleric)

Those are definite goals.

Umm, won't stack with haste, doesn't get it and doesn't get it.

What I want to do for practicality is monk, if it gets me that "Wisdom as AC" thingy.

And a level of Rogue to maximize tumble and UMD.

Yes, you will get that "Wisdom as AC," 'thingy'. Monks also get tumble, so you won't need a rogue level. However, you don't get that 'thingy' if you are wearing armor or using a shield, so take that into account.

If I can't can't the wisdom for AC from a monk, is there any reason to have any monk? Would the rogue be sufficient then because I can max tumble with it and still get UMD?

Yes, but scrolls are pricey and the thing you would most likely use UMD for. They are also cast at low levels making many of them obsolete. If you are looking for a source of MORDS, then try the D'Hara belt for as often as you will use it. If you have extra skill points to spend, then by all means, go ahead. Just know that you won't be using UMD to wield that holy avenger, if that is your goal.

I know nothing about monks and don't understand what benefits they give, and more importantly how many levels I need to get the benefits I seek.

Since I haven't an idea of what benefits you seek, I cannot comment on this further than I already have.

If I don't have enough epic feats available for the full list there, I'd ditch the epic Mage armor and warding, because I definitely want to increase my wisdom to a level where it is maximized in its usefulness. I have heard of people having 50s, but I wonder if that is much more valuable than 46 or 48...

Wisdom effects the DC saves on you spells, as does the level of the spell and spell focus feats. Wisdom also gives you more spells per day. You can take great wisdom X and three other epic feats if you take 38 cleric levels. What you want to do with them is up to you.

Last question. If I can do everything I want to above, are there certain levels at which I should take a rogue and monk level? (I have been assuming that I only need one of each, is THAT even true?)

Out of curiousity, have you even made a character in the epic levels?

Yes, you can hoard your skill points and wait until you reach level 37. At level 37, take your monk level and max out your tumble score and whatever else you want. As for taking a level of monk and rogue, remember, that if you take zen archery, you will need a weapon profiency for the bow. So either take an elf race or a fighter type class or you will by using your sling to hit opponents.

Thanks.

P.S. I took the Magic and Good domains. Magic has worked out awsome so far and good has been, not so relevent. I liked the theme of good and thought turning outsiders sounded cool, but have never done so.

Remeber that turning is based on a lot of different things I am not going to get into here, but it is mainly based on the level of the creature you are turning. Many of the creatures in the module have a lot of hit dice, meaning you must be of a higher level to turn them.

That said, you should forgo your dreams of role-playing what is fanciful in your head and play a domain that will help you in combat as a caster. Many have high saves or improved invasion so I would not recommend the sun domain, but trickery or plany would be okay. If you don't want a caster cleric, try the strength or war domains.