This wont make me any friends but SD...

minielvis · Post by **minielvis** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:02 pm

I gotta add my 2 cents! (1) By the Gods! No more nerfs. (2) Any uber build can be countered by another build. (3) Create rewards for those who do not *Cheese*. p.s. My friends and I are enjoying NS4. Kudos to all devs and DM's for all their work, effort and time. Plankton and friends

-Chronepsis- · Post by **-Chronepsis-** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:51 am

I would like to throw something in. My sd vindur can hide from just bout anyone and im lvl 25, i even hid from lvl 30's +, but the damage sucks right now and ppl made fun of it

. but the build isnt finished yet. The only 2 ever spotted me was xirt, but i never had my full hide then, and at that time xirt said he even had a hard time spotting me, the other was yonwes lvl 40, he was a bard. So if u guys think that sd's can get spotted, then ur wrong. I actually made this build to prove ppl wrong in the first place bout the sd builds, cause a good few months back there were ppl saying how useless it is to hide. So if anyone wants a shot at trying to spot me just ask when im playing, loggin is -Chronepsis-.

Post by **Yonwe** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:23 am

Well, it isn't just my Bard that is a good SD spotter; any Bard is good at it, since they have Listen as a class skill, Amplify/Clairaudience gives +30 total to it, Bard song tacks another +7 or so onto that, and you can slap a Listen helm like the Helm of the Piranha on for another +6. And all that combines with the fact that it is MUCH harder to buff Move Silently than Hide... Rangers swim in Hide buffs, but One with the Land is the only spell I can think of off the top of my head that gives a (measely) +4 to MS... people just pidgeonhole themselves with Spot thanks to the commonness of Enchanted Mithril Helms

P. Fricebottle · Post by **P. Fricebottle** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:59 am

I have to agree with Chonespis on the fact that SDs are excellent for PvP, its only a matter if you get spotted. But when facing monsters and crap, the 'You've been spotted' doesn't work as it should. Sometimes it won't pop up and outta nowhere everything crashes on top of you and you're still moving at half speed. Also sometime when sometime is chasing me I go into stealh (I got HIPS), and they still see and chase me.

Celorn · Post by **Celorn** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:16 pm

Hmm.. i've done some listen vs. HiPS testing.. and I was able to see how that can happen. I now know some techniques to get around the Bioware 'bugs' involved with HiPS, but you still can never be 100% sure you're hidden due to no 'you've been spotted' message coming up for PCs...

Perhaps, when NPC's with LISTEN detect a SD, there is no 'you've been spotted' message because they didn't SPOT you..they HEARD you ;]?

In 'zons where there are bards and I bet the hurlers have a maxxed listen or something, because they often will throw their axes at my SD's even while i'm standing right beside other, non-attacking ones.

Elagneros · Post by **Elagneros** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:53 pm

Celorn wrote:I now know some techniques to get around the Bioware 'bugs' involved with HiPS, but you still can never be 100% sure you're hidden due to no 'you've been spotted' message coming up for PCs...

Well in pnp gaming, there are times where the DM is not obligated to tell the PC when he failed a skill roll or an opposed skill roll. Certainly if I were DMing, I'd only let the player know his attempt at stealth failed when the enemies start filling his character with arrows.

Lework · Post by **Lework** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:52 pm

The only problem with implementing a huge change like this is it would probably require a wipe to reinforce. no use making a change and having 20+ hips builds that break the rules.

Im all for wipes, they even the playing field and make everyone start off from square one. Plus it used to be a lot easier to make gold and since the re adjustments making gold is 10x more difficult. but im sure theres people who have millions muled away (me) from back when you could make a mil easily on a raid.

Val'Sharess · Post by **Val'Sharess** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:31 am

Perhaps the best way to go is to come up with multiclassing rules that make sense, and enforcing them on level-up. It's not just an issue with a particular build, but cheese builds in general.

I have some suggestions in this regard, if anyone wants to hear them. They are rules I had implemented on my own server a couple years back.

- Amaranthe