2-handed weapons

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:55 pm

Why don't we see more people running around with 2handed weapons?
Because shields are infinitely more useful atm.

Now, dropping the effectiveness of shields isn't the answer.

Increasing the effectiveness of 2handed weapons is.

Current:
Iron: 1d4
Steel: 1d6
E. Steel: 1d8
E. Mithril: 1d10
I. Mithril: 2d6

Make them more damaging:

Modified:
Iron: 2d4
Steel: 2d6
E. Steel: 2d8
E. Mithril: 2d10
I. Mithril: 2d12

Do the same for the massive crit damage too.

Maybe even toss a +2 str mod onto the weapon at the I. Mithril level.

Or could follow the idea on the one Long Bow from melencia with the peircing resist on it.

In the end something needs to be done with 2handed weapons, they simply aren't worth losing a shield over atm.

Donan · Post by **Donan** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:24 pm

Yeah I agree, I like even duel wielding but its such a big tradeoff. I always liked halberds smashing people with that weapon is so tempting but when it comes down to it ill go longsword, hammer, Morningstar, etc. and a shield any day instead

TheKala · Post by **TheKala** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:38 am

I dont think two handed weapons are that bad... if you know how to use them right. Take mine for example... Any melee fighter wanna test it out? Betcha my char using a double axe could whoop you

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:17 am

That's a dualwield, not a 2handed weapon.

Still, with my 50% slash immune followed up by a 10/- slash resist, even the 3x crits (or 4x) are gonna be greatley diminished.
Would have to hit me with atleast 21 damage to have just 1 damage make it through. Hit me with a 90 dmg crit and only 35 would get through.

/tp "JesterOI" the next time you on Kala, let's try it out.

Post by **TheBestDeception** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:19 am

The double-sided weapons should be classified under the same category as two-handed ... both have no posibility to retain shield bonuses while using them.

Kala: bonuses to AC would be nice for them, as having this huge bar in front of you should be able to deflect blows quite well.

Jester: Any build with a shield can have 50% 10/- slashing resist. Your build is not special for it.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:37 am

TheBestDeception wrote:Jester: Any build with a shield can have 50% 10/- slashing resist. Your build is not special for it.

Who said anything about it being special?

Settle down there, BadBear!!!

As far as dmg goes with a BattleAxe+Shield vs DoubleAxe or Great Axe the avg damage comes out nice and equal pretty much. All are within 2 avg dmg of each other, though the BattleAxe+Shield is at the top.
The DoubleAxe is the big loser because of a -2 ab on all attacks.

In the end a BattleAxe+Shield has the decided upper hand due to a +6AC advantage, 10/- resist to a secondary physical damage type, and 25% immunity to some sort of elemental dmg.

Using a shield is clearly superior.

Only time I would go switch to no shield would be to use a 2handed vs a hard to damage mage.

Heck, even using a shield on a mage is worth it. I'd trade 5% spell failure for extra ac, damage resist, and damage immunites (especially if using the small silvery shields, 15/- resist).

Post by **TheBestDeception** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:39 pm

You just made a great case as to why double weapons need more improvements than 2-handed weapons

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:42 pm

JesterOI wrote:That's a dualwield, not a 2handed weapon."

Said that because I was talking about 2handed weapons in this thread.

Never said anywhere at that point that dualwield weapons had it any better or worse than 2handed.

But you're right, I did make a good case for dualwield weapons as well, if not a better case than for 2handed.

2 birds with one stone, thnx for helping me out TBD!

Donan · Post by **Donan** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:44 am

With the new stuff going on I cant help to be greedy and raise this issue again. I made a cleric/CoT (figured can use cleric to offset the no shield with buffs) focusing on halberd, I am using the ice pole from the ice giant, forgot the name. the loss of the shield is definitely brutal. So I figured I would offer up the suggestion of giving the 2 handed weapons some extra defensive abilities. Although the one nice thing against NS guards who have some small resist I get average of 110 on crits

Post by **Flailer** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:57 pm

Yeah, was thinking about that recently.

As far as 2-handed weapons go (like great sword and halberd), if you're strength based, they're not too bad with the 1.5 str multiplier to damage. If you take some extra classes that add some AC (RDD, DD, tumble (blech), etc) you can make up some of the minuses. Halberds even sweeter now that dual damage types are fixed in Bio engine.

For double ended weapons (dire mace, etc) I could see adding a bit of defensive capability into it. But what's fair - certainly not 25% immunity and 10 resist? Maybe 10% immunity? 5 resist (like that's on the Forest Bow for pierce)? Seems that in reality a two handed weapon should be able to be used to block some attacks. Increases in parry would be good if it worked or deflection AC if it stacked...

Anyways, we're considering it.

Donan · Post by **Donan** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:24 pm

Yeah a high immunity would be excessive but I like the comparison to the ice bow, a small extra would be great. I will make a new char to use either double bladed weapons or keep the old one with halbred depending on which way you go.

Thanks for the quick reply

AggieDan · Post by **AggieDan** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:01 pm

Yeah, a high immunity seems like it would be excessive. I like the idea, though, of it definitely being tied to the type of damage that that weapon deals. Kind of a bit of a protection against accidentally hacking off your own toe sort of thing.

Though, this does bring to mind the fact that many small characters are not going to be able to get the benefits of a two-handed weapon since because of their small stature they can't use them.

But, really, what full-sized blacksmith is going to think about putting those kinds of enchantments on a regular-sized weapon? It isn't going to be their priority since they'll likely think, "Oh, well, that's what a shield is for." Best for them to concentrate on the offensize abilities of the weapon as opposed to defensive.

This may seem apropos, but it really isn't.

What about making medium sized weapons with two-handed defensive enchantments racially limited to gnomes and halflings? And have them drop from deep gnomes, halflings and goblins? I guess then you'd have to make them wieldable by goblins as well. The idea being that it is designed for small hands and therefore not really usable by a larger character.

And on a side note... What's with no small stature defenders unless it is a town made up entirely of gnomes or halflings? It's not like a Disney ride where you gotta be at least THIS tall in order to fight for your faction. Halfling slingers and gnomish sorcerors backing up the melee guys is a serious oversight IMO. Also, why no RDD defenders of Sleeth? You gotta have at least one or two of THOSE running around in the city proper.

Elagneros · Post by **Elagneros** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:39 pm

I don't think it's that bad atm.

My dwarf fighter can already cause over 100 damage on a crit with his Forest Imbued Greataxe. I don't think the game really needs to make it worse.

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:00 am

I personally think 2 handers could do more damage than current. The str bonus extra doesn't seem to make much of a difference unless you're a WM. I don't care about the defensive aspect, because trading a 2 hand or dual wield is for more offense. 2 handers should reflect this.

Dual wielders get alot of overlooked benefit, however. If you're expecting to be a solo giant, sure, you're going to have a tough time when you can't block that second damage type at all, but the benefit of having extra attacks is excellent. I have a lvl 9 fighter with dual shortswords with 4 attacks at +15 +10/+15 +10 and i'm tearing up even the undead who are immune to crits, compared to my paladin i played over a year ago with a warhammer and shield.

Kromix · Post by **Kromix** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:44 am

a gnome halfling restrict weapon should be great....

forged by the blacksmith gnomes and powered by their mages... out comes the mighty club of homerunning... or the sort...