More pk whining

[-BannyD-]

I don't know how many times I've rewritten the Bigby's spells...

make bigbys a discipline save just like Bastions of War has it...may seem like copying...but hell...it works...its savable but still good vs those who didnt mind to put some focus on discipline in their build

[Ryddwillow]

I hear ya there, but since half the spells a mage can use is either nerfed or a player or a monster has a good save so where do ya go from there? I play fighters, clerics, rogues, druids, and mages of course. Without a green hand to greet ya what other spell can i use on u? Most couldnt see ya so there is your advantage and hmmmmm what else? You have haste and invisiblity, and other spells u cast as protection. Hmmmmm, I 'm still thinking why? The mages only defense in this game againest a ranger/sd/rogue or any other melee char. Still thinking why? Well if ya went lawful and had the formain link and cast dismissal on the big green glowing hand it would dissappear, or if u chug lessor spell mantle and haste and use kd on a mage, hmmmmm. many ways to out wit a mage but have to use the practice is all.

[TheBestDeception]

I don't believe the problem with bigby's to be the fact that another mage can be protected against it (cheese vs. cheese) ... but the problem is that an STR based Fighter will still not have enough STR to make the save, short of rolling an invisible 20.

As you cryptically asked in your post, "Without a green hand to greet ya what other spell can i use on u?" I'd say the second cheese, IGMS, is fair game. Cross class the sorc with paladin and throw in discipline at lvl 40 and you don't even need bigbys to protect you.

As for your ranger/sd/rogue example, Bigby's doesnt work if you dont see them ... making spells like Horrid Wilting and Wail to be better candidates to kill with.

[Bob]

As you cryptically asked in your post, "Without a green hand to greet ya what other spell can i use on u?" I'd say the second cheese, IGMS, is fair game. Cross class the sorc with paladin and throw in discipline at lvl 40 and you don't even need bigbys to protect you.

It's an option if you go LA, AO, or RK...

[izzle2]

We are getting a bit off topic here but since it's been brought up. I love playing a wizzy, but it is a bit much when my 26th level rdd still can't save from bigby's on a regular basis. If it's a strength save (after testing I think the formula includes more than this) and she can't do it, what other character has a chance? That's a rhetorical question btw. I know there are others that can get higher, but my point is that the majority of builds are crispy critters after this spell lands. I love the spell and the IGMS that will inevitably follow but I do get sick of people calling them cheese. It's pretty much the only combination that works on a regular basis, either against mobs or another player. Oh wait, I do have a necro mage who will wail you to death, but talk about cheese...

Perhaps with a more moderated version of bigby's, people will stop whining about the cheese mages and just accept that mages are better classes of people. Wizards are the most intelligent folk in the world, why do people think they should win just because they can beat up some poor dwarf and steal his hammer?

[JesterOI]

//SR
if(!MyResistSpell(OBJECT_SELF, oTarget))
{
int nCasterModifier = GetCasterAbilityModifier(OBJECT_SELF);
int nCasterRoll = d20(1) + nCasterModifier + CasterLevel(OBJECT_SELF) + 12 + -1;

int nTargetRoll = GetAC(oTarget);

// * grapple HIT succesful,
if (nCasterRoll >= nTargetRoll)
{
// * now must make a GRAPPLE check
// * hold target for duration of spell

nCasterRoll = d20(1) + nCasterModifier + GetCasterLevel(OBJECT_SELF) + 12 + 4;

nTargetRoll = d20(1) + GetBaseAttackBonus(oTarget) + GetSizeModifier(oTarget) + GetAbilityModifier(ABILITY_STRENGTH, oTarget);

if (nCasterRoll >= nTargetRoll)
{
effect eKnockdown = EffectParalyze();

// creatures immune to paralzation are still prevented from moving
if (GetIsImmune(oTarget, IMMUNITY_TYPE_PARALYSIS) ||
GetIsImmune(oTarget, IMMUNITY_TYPE_MIND_SPELLS))
{
eKnockdown = EffectCutsceneImmobilize();
}

[JesterOI]

The attack roll seems a little high, but it's the grapple roll that is overwhelmingly in favour of the caster.
For the grapple check the caster has atleast a +12 bonus over anything the same level just about.

[TheBestDeception]

Is that Lokey's most recent version?

[Lokey]

That's the current bio version, I didn't think it could get any worse (not to mention the cutscene immobilization--granted that Bio prone is just as bad)?

PnP: You can make any Bigby casting do what a lower version does (could be done from subradial, think it has somewhere). It's a created force effect (like a summon) with the same hitpoints as the caster and stats based on the flavor cast. No spell resistance! What I recall them doing:

5: Like animated shield, gives the caster +10 cover ac against one target.
6: Hand appears and tries to punch out a target (guess it sticks around and continues making grapple checks or something, not sure).
7: Hand tries to grapple target, sticks around.
8: Hand tries attacks and grapples target, sticks around.
9: Makes an attack per round as well as a grapple attempt or a constriction attack if target is/stays grappled.

5- isn't possible if you use the NWN melee engine. Generic -10 ab to one target I guess we can live with (+10 ac to the caster is much stronger)...though with the kd/discipline nonsense this is a big deal.

6- had that knockdown/pushback code lying around begging to be used.

7,8,9 are a pain...I remember toying with using a creature (humanoid so the animations would already be loaded in most cases) but ran into something annoying along that route. Probably designing AI routines about whether or not to ignore them, what effect spells have on them and so forth. Just not worth the effort for something implemented with half of Bioware/Floodgate's [censored] into an expansion.

The main defense for them is to smash em (however your char normally crushes your enemies before you) or doing things like a stilled dimension door or teleport if you're a mage that's grappled, i.e. things that don't exist in NWN. Spell system has needed a total overhaul since at least the expansion content hit (and don't bring up darkness, remind me to fix that too).

[Flailer]

(and don't bring up darkness, remind me to fix that too).

Actually, I won't bring it up and remind you to fix it. It's my friend....

[deathdearler1]

the only class i have seen consistently break the grapple of bigby is monk. no one i know can seem to figure out why, but a higher lvl monk will almost always walk free of it.

[Terminal Insanity]

I don't see how bigby's is overpowered... there are so many ways to be immune or escape from it, i'm not going to list them since i DO use bigbys lol but i'm prety sure the Devs know, or they should at least take a step back and look at it, it's realy nothing too secret, it's just a matter of knowing the spell's weakness... wich it has alot of...