Created a generic druid, all stats at least 10, decent str, good wis. Bought nothing. No armor, no weapon, no potions. Summoned the penguin and headed out into goblin land.
21 minutes to level 2. Overpowered summons??
Overpowered summons??
Overpowered summons??
Boris TheMadMonkSprinsteenStoleyersBa'tionjaDungshovelerTheBigBlueDummyAndOnesIForgot
it took you 20 min to level a druid to 2..... 
that seems a little slow to me it took me exactly the ammount of time it takes to walk to the south gate to get to 3 
o you only used your summon wel i did that with stuff off the noob vendor
that seems a little slow to me it took me exactly the ammount of time it takes to walk to the south gate to get to 3 o you only used your summon wel i did that with stuff off the noob vendor
the Okie of Peace and Love
NS4
Snach Alot (Okie ambassador)9
Atomos (Okie Ambassador)10
Yoko Kurama(Okie Ambassador)1
NS3 pre/wipe
Sesshoumaru the Aristocratic Assassin
Naomi Armitage
Ross Silybis
Yoko Kurama
NS4
Snach Alot (Okie ambassador)9
Atomos (Okie Ambassador)10
Yoko Kurama(Okie Ambassador)1
NS3 pre/wipe
Sesshoumaru the Aristocratic Assassin
Naomi Armitage
Ross Silybis
Yoko Kurama
I think the problem is that the other classes don't lvl fast enough.
For example, it shouldn't be bad for people who spend 2-3 hours to be lvl 6 by that time. And then maybe 2 hours later be lvl 12. That isn't power lvling really.
There should be more and more item diversification for the non casters so that they can get better and more upgraded items than normal items.
My cents
For example, it shouldn't be bad for people who spend 2-3 hours to be lvl 6 by that time. And then maybe 2 hours later be lvl 12. That isn't power lvling really.
There should be more and more item diversification for the non casters so that they can get better and more upgraded items than normal items.
My cents
I've tried fire, i've tried faith, and i've tried force, all I have left is hope.
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AlienOverlord
- Pk Bait
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 8:01 pm
I have 5 chars under 12th level and have spent 8 hours min on each...how to get to level 12 in 4-5 hours?!? The druid I am playing now is 6th level and I've played her about 8 hours...been dining on gargoyles mostly but it's a minute per kill (killing and finding another to kill) so even though 84 xp each is good I can't kill enough in one hour to make a level. 
I am not sure why this should be the case. Even with the best scripting in the world summons are dumb. Pretty much every npc or monster in every game makes up for lack of brains with strength.JesterOI wrote:The HD of the summons shouldn't exceed the casters.
Hit dice is not the primary thing that determines a summons power. Stats, feats, skills and class distribution are far more important. Also you have to take into account the funky abilities like ranged touch attacks and breath weapons.
You missed the point entirely. I didn't DO anything. I was eating pizza, BSing with a friend, and watching a movie.Lunas wrote:it took you 20 min to level a druid to 2.....
o you only used your summon wel i did that with stuff off the noob vendor
My point was: Should summons really be tough enough that a caster can follow them around NAKED and level up?
Perhaps a better point: Should summons really have no effect on the XP that a character receives for kills?
If a summon changed the xp (just like a PC party member) but also changed the synergy bonus, it might be a more equitable system.
Boris TheMadMonkSprinsteenStoleyersBa'tionjaDungshovelerTheBigBlueDummyAndOnesIForgot
Yes that is exactly what summons should do. Why? Because you are summoning their abilities to fight and serve you. That is the entire point of the spell. Is it okay? Its fine with me, thats the way I wish summons worked in NS3 to begin with, and in PnP the summons do other things like my dishes and make me apple pie!
I've tried fire, i've tried faith, and i've tried force, all I have left is hope.
Ya summons do help casters lvl, its pretty much the only thing iv found that would keep me alive at lower lvls, summon meat sheild!! yeah!
But it did do most the work, iv lvled fighter classes, caster/fighter, and caster classes and the caster with summons is much easier to lvl.
Iv recently built a rogue in which i spent alot of time scribing summon scrolls for, and pumping up its UMD skill, i can cast all lvl 9 spells with no chance of failure, HOWEVER, now that the summons have been "equalized", those summons at 8 and 9 are no longer any help and die immediatly.
IM not sure how the others have been modified yet, but i would like my half-cellestial back pls
But it did do most the work, iv lvled fighter classes, caster/fighter, and caster classes and the caster with summons is much easier to lvl.
Iv recently built a rogue in which i spent alot of time scribing summon scrolls for, and pumping up its UMD skill, i can cast all lvl 9 spells with no chance of failure, HOWEVER, now that the summons have been "equalized", those summons at 8 and 9 are no longer any help and die immediatly.
IM not sure how the others have been modified yet, but i would like my half-cellestial back pls
Erythan 12 fighter/ 11 wm LA
Erythan the Holy 17 cleric LA
Erythan the Scout 18 rogue SL (Artisan Tailor)
Voodo the Sexy Gimp 20 Sorcerer MA
Erythan the Holy 17 cleric LA
Erythan the Scout 18 rogue SL (Artisan Tailor)
Voodo the Sexy Gimp 20 Sorcerer MA
You might have been able to do that at lvl 1-4, but I doubt you'd be able to get away with it much higher than that. But in any case, especially at that lvl when you don't have that many spells per day, what's the difference between a caster with a summon that performs well in melee or whatever, to a tank that just blasts thru the first few levels in the blink of an eye?TheBoris wrote: You missed the point entirely. I didn't DO anything. I was eating pizza, BSing with a friend, and watching a movie.
My point was: Should summons really be tough enough that a caster can follow them around NAKED and level up?
I don't think that'd work that well. It's a really drastic change and I don't think it's been proven enough yet that it's a nessecary one. If you applied the same kind of party system to a wizard and his/her farmiliars that you did with a PC companion, that's half the xp right there with the summon, throw a farmiliar into the mix and that's a third (not to mention that some farmiliars like the panther are a lvl higher than you so they'll start hogging some of the xp). Synergy would replace a bit of this, but not all. Change the synergy bonus to compensate? Well then there's no point in adusting it in the first place.Perhaps a better point: Should summons really have no effect on the XP that a character receives for kills?
If a summon changed the xp (just like a PC party member) but also changed the synergy bonus, it might be a more equitable system.
And also, now summons stink. Like others have said...lvl 8 summons can't even handle hill giants anymore...which is sad because lvl 8 summons should be the ShizNITE! against hill giants. In PnP you get to summon a Qeutzicotl at lvl 15 as a cleric...which means you could rule some hill giants...here the elder elementals can't cope with 3 hits from a hill giant. Some problems? Maybe.
I don't see a problem with summons being really powerful, smart monsters, like bosses, should dispell. Mages should cast mord's, and non-casters should knockdown, HIPS, sneak attack, or .....wait those don't work because non of the non-caster issues have been resolved yet.
Seems to me casters are constantly being held down by the server admins to make the playing field more even for non-casters....why not make non-casters more items to make them more even with casters?
Hell, at lvl 16 non-casters should have something that gives them some magical abilities like dispell, haste, invisibility, flying and so forth. Yet in this server there are strikingly few items at any lvl that give magic abilities. If there were better items offered to non-casters only that had magical abilities, I gaurantee less complaints would be heard with regard to the caster/non-caster problems.
Stop hurting the casters, they are supposed to be powerful, the server's problem is that its non-casters don't have any power at all so....make the non-casters more powerful. Think about it....even if summons continue to get nerfed, at the current rate non-casters still won't be able to deal with the MYRIAD abilites that casters have in advantage over the non-casters.
Making casters lame doesn't really address that issue, Weird, Grease, Lightning, Fireball, and so forth are still spells that can hurt non-casters regardless of teh nerfing done to them. The only way to make non-casters even with casters is to quite with the illusion that "less magic for casters is better for balance" and start by making bigger guns for the non-casters. Better bows, arrows, swords, armors, thing that clerics, druids, and mages shouldn't have access by unique coding on the dev's part.
WIth certain items have the item code do a unique check, if there is one lvl in a caster class, then the item is unequipable by that character, making those items unique only to non-casters. If there aren't 5 lvls in barbarian, then the Axe of Awesomeness can't be wielded by a certain character that tried the "one level" gimmick. This would make non-casters even with casters.
Lets face it....there is no way to nerf casters enough that doesn't still give casters a unique advantage over non-casters. As long as magic casters have magic, they will have an advantage over non-casters. Simple as that. Add more intuitive items and the problem will get solved.
I don't see a problem with summons being really powerful, smart monsters, like bosses, should dispell. Mages should cast mord's, and non-casters should knockdown, HIPS, sneak attack, or .....wait those don't work because non of the non-caster issues have been resolved yet.
Seems to me casters are constantly being held down by the server admins to make the playing field more even for non-casters....why not make non-casters more items to make them more even with casters?
Hell, at lvl 16 non-casters should have something that gives them some magical abilities like dispell, haste, invisibility, flying and so forth. Yet in this server there are strikingly few items at any lvl that give magic abilities. If there were better items offered to non-casters only that had magical abilities, I gaurantee less complaints would be heard with regard to the caster/non-caster problems.
Stop hurting the casters, they are supposed to be powerful, the server's problem is that its non-casters don't have any power at all so....make the non-casters more powerful. Think about it....even if summons continue to get nerfed, at the current rate non-casters still won't be able to deal with the MYRIAD abilites that casters have in advantage over the non-casters.
Making casters lame doesn't really address that issue, Weird, Grease, Lightning, Fireball, and so forth are still spells that can hurt non-casters regardless of teh nerfing done to them. The only way to make non-casters even with casters is to quite with the illusion that "less magic for casters is better for balance" and start by making bigger guns for the non-casters. Better bows, arrows, swords, armors, thing that clerics, druids, and mages shouldn't have access by unique coding on the dev's part.
WIth certain items have the item code do a unique check, if there is one lvl in a caster class, then the item is unequipable by that character, making those items unique only to non-casters. If there aren't 5 lvls in barbarian, then the Axe of Awesomeness can't be wielded by a certain character that tried the "one level" gimmick. This would make non-casters even with casters.
Lets face it....there is no way to nerf casters enough that doesn't still give casters a unique advantage over non-casters. As long as magic casters have magic, they will have an advantage over non-casters. Simple as that. Add more intuitive items and the problem will get solved.
I've tried fire, i've tried faith, and i've tried force, all I have left is hope.
A partially valid point. The elder water elemental is toast against the giants. The elder earth elemental doesn't do too badly at all. Obviously a bit of balancing is in order here too.ATI wrote:And also, now summons stink. *snip* ...here the elder elementals can't cope with 3 hits from a hill giant.
Boris TheMadMonkSprinsteenStoleyersBa'tionjaDungshovelerTheBigBlueDummyAndOnesIForgot
I agree that better gear for melee char's is DEFINATELY needed (dosnt need to be anywhere NEAR the Ultra-Uber gear of NS3, but improvements are needed). I had the opportunity to run into a god a cple months ago, and he was kind enough to show me the best katana the mod currently offers. It was dropped in some epic area, and besides a +5 enchan. bonus, some bonus slashing dam, and keen (i think), that was it. No heavy duty elemental dam, nothing.
Ive had a friend-cleric buff me until the ENTIRE top portion of my screen was filled with various buffs, making it pretty damn obvious to me that casters are still extreamly unbalanced. I had ALL the elemental dam covered, regenerating, shielded from pretty much every spell up to lvl 6, Concealed, Dam reduced, Attack Dam increased, extra sonic/fire dam from another spell, ect ect. How in the hell are melee'ers supposed to compete with crap like that if the best weapon we can look forward to is listed above?
Maybe another suggestion is to LIMIT the number of buffs a caster (clerics especially) can have going at any one time? Id say 6-8 would do it. That will still give them an even chance to survive against fighters, at this CURRENT gear lvl. Also, to make mages less dominant (and certainly more creative in their dueling, instead of the stale "Web..Bigs..IGMS" combo) would be to FIX that damned DC 100 on the web spell, decrease the STR check needed to break free of the bigs spells, and somehow limit the number of IGMS mages can have MAXIMIZED. Say...3?
Ive had a friend-cleric buff me until the ENTIRE top portion of my screen was filled with various buffs, making it pretty damn obvious to me that casters are still extreamly unbalanced. I had ALL the elemental dam covered, regenerating, shielded from pretty much every spell up to lvl 6, Concealed, Dam reduced, Attack Dam increased, extra sonic/fire dam from another spell, ect ect. How in the hell are melee'ers supposed to compete with crap like that if the best weapon we can look forward to is listed above?
Maybe another suggestion is to LIMIT the number of buffs a caster (clerics especially) can have going at any one time? Id say 6-8 would do it. That will still give them an even chance to survive against fighters, at this CURRENT gear lvl. Also, to make mages less dominant (and certainly more creative in their dueling, instead of the stale "Web..Bigs..IGMS" combo) would be to FIX that damned DC 100 on the web spell, decrease the STR check needed to break free of the bigs spells, and somehow limit the number of IGMS mages can have MAXIMIZED. Say...3?
