Weird.. make it like a crappy version of Wail of the Banshee

[JesterOI]

After your first casting of wail try examining the living creatures that were hit, I bet they are deafened.
Wail now deafens creatures for a few rounds that save against the spell.
And a deafened creature can't be kill by the wail of the banshee if they can't hear it.

Yes, so of the 2 nerfed spells (wail can only be cast once), weird might be a better choice because it can be cast unlimited times on the same group while you can't with wail

Maybe try a dispel inbetween Wails?

Actually, the tlk files are read locally. You have to put the tlk file in a hak for players to see text changes. Besides, the description is the same in Single Player.

Maybe the devs could put these up for for download so players can get the description of what the spell actually does in NS?

And if they don't want to pay for that bandwidth, send the files to me and I'll post them on my webspace from my isp. Or could even host them myself, will be getting my bandwidth upgraded soon, 5mbits down and 800kbits up, all for a measily $33usd / month

[Old-Sire]

Well, now that we've managed to completely nerf any good level 9 mage spells, what's next? Clerics? This is ridiculous. So now we're back to using evocation spells only because there is "nothing" left for a mage to use at level 9. Are we forgetting the "massive" fort saves on pretty much every character/npc/monster vs death? how bout immunities from spells? Mages
bards, clerics use spellcraft to boost their saves so even they don't have that weakness.

You know how I can tell that Weird was altered even more blatantly than just reading it after seeing the orignal? The "grammar" is WRONG. I quoted it precisely and if you did not pick out that it went from "creatures" to "creature" in the final sentence you may want to re-read the spell. I don't have screen shots to back up my original findings on this server, if I'd known the spell was on the "chop block" I would have taken some. Regardless, level up a mage in your core neverwinter nights (patched) and look for yourself if you doubt me. Bioware "did" not change this spell.. Devs here did.

I've also caught onto the black blade of disaster change, ever heard the quote "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."? I thought there were more important problems on this server that need attention.. But I've already said my piece on that.

[DrakhanValane]

Well, now that we've managed to completely nerf any good level 9 mage spells, what's next? Clerics? This is ridiculous. So now we're back to using evocation spells only because there is "nothing" left for a mage to use at level 9. Are we forgetting the "massive" fort saves on pretty much every character/npc/monster vs death? how bout immunities from spells? Mages
bards, clerics use spellcraft to boost their saves so even they don't have that weakness.

You know how I can tell that Weird was altered even more blatantly than just reading it after seeing the orignal? The "grammar" is WRONG. I quoted it precisely and if you did not pick out that it went from "creatures" to "creature" in the final sentence you may want to re-read the spell. I don't have screen shots to back up my original findings on this server, if I'd known the spell was on the "chop block" I would have taken some. Regardless, level up a mage in your core neverwinter nights (patched) and look for yourself if you doubt me. Bioware "did" not change this spell.. Devs here did.

I've also caught onto the black blade of disaster change, ever heard the quote "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."? I thought there were more important problems on this server that need attention.. But I've already said my piece on that.

The spell has the exact same description in NS4 as it does in the single player campaign.

[Lokey]

And if they don't want to pay for that bandwidth, send the files to me and I'll post them on my webspace from my isp. Or could even host them myself, will be getting my bandwidth upgraded soon, 5mbits down and 800kbits up, all for a measily $33usd / month

Wow, I'm moving to spamville!

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Yes there's some weirdness in the spells. We've been waiting until we can compile a better list of what's busted or what's diverging too much from the description before making more changes--we'll design the spell system on paper before updating the 300+ spell abilities in the game. Individually tweaking them is a lot like smoothing wallpaper

Disagree on Black Blade: summoning a plot creature for a distraction is more trouble than it will ever be worth (in other mods, summon it from a scroll so you don't need to do the concentration check, there's other exploits with it too). An AoE that has a chance of insta-killing things with Death spell protection--would think that has it's usefulness and makes it worth a level 9 spell slot, need to see it in practice though. It's like the Bigby spells, with a little thought/time Bio could have provided the balancing mechanisms for these and some other spells, but they didn't (so now they're pg staples, shrug).

[Old-Sire]

I stand corrected.

I believed I had checked the spell description and double checked the spell effects. Odd that the wording was altered the way it is.

My resource is outdated from where I chose to use the spell from initially:

http://www.gamebanshee.com/neverwintern ... e.php#null

I still feel that the way the spell has been altered it is now quite under powered. It still comes back to choosing to use my 9th slot as a maximised IGMS over anything else. IGMS wins over anything else even altered the way it is.

I have done some testing with Black blade or disaster. While it does have the capability of killing out right it virtually never hits (using the BAB mech its setup with) but it is difficult to establish since no rolls are displayed to determine success/failure rate Ddue to the fact it needs to strike a critical hit to kill outright, Wail is still superior even altered the way it is. Furthermore I believe the crit strike is still considered death magic in terms of bonuses to saves, though if its considered "dev crit" immunity won't be an issue, but SR will.

[DrakhanValane]

Here's the Paper and Pencil version of Weird:

Weird
Illusion (Phantasm) [Fear, Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Targets: Any number of creatures, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with), then Fortitude partial
Spell Resistance: Yes
Only the spell’s subjects can see the phantasmal creatures attacking them. The character sees only shadowy shapes. The subjects first get a Will save to recognize the image as unreal. If a subject fails, the phantasm touches the subject, and the subject must succeed at a Fortitude save or die from fear. Even if the Fortitude save is successful, the subject takes 3d6 points of damage and is stunned for 1 round. The subject’s Strength score also drops 1d4 points for 10 minutes. A stunned creature can’t act and loses any Dexterity bonus to AC. Attackers gain +2 bonuses to attack it.
If a subject of a weird attack succeeds in disbelieving and is wearing a helm of telepathy, the beast can be turned upon the character. The character must then disbelieve it or suffer its deadly fear attack.

[Bob]

Black Blade - Is it possible to have more of the save information sent to the caster's combat window? It'd help for feedback to see the rolls...

[JesterOI]

Here's the Paper and Pencil version of Weird:

Weird
Illusion (Phantasm) [Fear, Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Targets: Any number of creatures, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with), then Fortitude partial
Spell Resistance: Yes
Only the spell’s subjects can see the phantasmal creatures attacking them. The character sees only shadowy shapes. The subjects first get a Will save to recognize the image as unreal. If a subject fails, the phantasm touches the subject, and the subject must succeed at a Fortitude save or die from fear. Even if the Fortitude save is successful, the subject takes 3d6 points of damage and is stunned for 1 round. The subject’s Strength score also drops 1d4 points for 10 minutes. A stunned creature can’t act and loses any Dexterity bonus to AC. Attackers gain +2 bonuses to attack it.
If a subject of a weird attack succeeds in disbelieving and is wearing a helm of telepathy, the beast can be turned upon the character. The character must then disbelieve it or suffer its deadly fear attack.

So pallies and kenders should be immune to weird? (According to PnP rules that is)
lol, and even a level 1 spell can give immunity to weird if we go by PnP rules, Protection vs Good/Evil.

The people whining about weird being shitty in NS are lazy...

[Wolfarus]

I cant see how casters are being called nerfed up to this point..

Pretty much EVERY mage/sorc ive dueled (in city defense) has used this spell combo, and won 80% of the time : Any of the Big's spells (usually grasping hand or forcefull hand) , then they grease/web the immediate area, THEN they sit back and toss maxamized IGMS's at you.

Most mages dont specialize in a school that will take away their true sight spell, so really no chance of sneaking up on them (reagen is an exception. ive invis'd and snuck up on him lots heh) w/o using Hips or hide.

As for clerics, again most high-ish lvl clerics who've attacked NS have used battletide and divine power as their main buffs, concealment (not sure which spell though..ghostly or eth. visage maybe) among other things. Makes them practicly untouchable (at least long enough for them to do you in with the mag. damage of divine power)

So while casters maybe vulnerable to KD, you have to get close enough to use it first

[OneManArmy]

Yea no doubt any form of caster is strong in NS4 cause very few magic item for pure melee can come close to a lv 7-9 spell.

I even made a test with NS items, and i got a template that come with auto quicken III, 62AC, over 40 discipline, immune crit and a decent DC on death spells (38)... its kinda cheesy hugh ! okay its by lv40 of course. Only drawback is average saves and nearly no epic spells (who cares !!!)

But get a bow and sneack him while he cast if u cant get close and anyway those ridiculous DC on web and graise will be fixed "soon".

btw i'm a caster so i'm not that exited on this coming fixed lol

[Old-Sire]

I can't be bothered to pick out quotes here but its self explainatory..

My whole reason in bringing this point up to begin with was erred in the sense that it appeared to me that weird had been altered by the server devs with all of the other un mentioned changes.

The spell was balanced fine before the patch altered it, at least when you compare it to other available choices for the levels you can meta cast. I say yank the IGMS spell altogether and see where that leaves mages.