Shifter fix?

[Throst54]

what, that wasnt general enough for u?

[Spura]

The only things that really get tiring is when people only ask for "improvements to shifters" that don't involve the class itself, just other classes they think it should be multiclassed with. That doesn't improve the shifter class; it just shows that the class isn't right the way it is now.

That logic is totally faulty. I will use your logic to make some statements here:
A lot of people take monk with cleric, that shows that what cleric needs is to have tumble as class skill and evasion and AC when unarmored.
Ppl take WM with fighter what that shows is that fighters need more damage, better crits and better AB.
RDD fighters, apparently fighters need STR increases with levels.
And so on..

Basicaly what you are saying is: If ppl multiclass then it is because base class is lacking what it needs.
But the truth is, people multiclass so that they gain
1. desired abilities that base class doesn't have
2. abilities that tie in well with original class' stats and abilities
3. makes class stronger in its intendend function

Prime examples of first are: fighter rogue for UMD tumble evasion, shifter rogue and shifter monk
Prime examples of second are: druid cleric, cleric monk, shifter monk, paladin sorc. They get double use of their wisdom or charisma.
Prime examples of third are: Fighter WM for making a better hitter and shifter dwarven defender for making a better tank(which is essentially what shifter is).

Multiclassing is same for shifter as for your fighter RDD or fighter WM, it is a way to improve character by a lot in a given direction. Here you have a
-poor AB class(base AB is about rogues, most armed shapes have around 22 STR base, that accounts for a lot of AB loss at lvl 40 and it is hard to weapon focus, unarmed shapes lose AB cos they don't meld weapons and are also vulnerable to various resists).
-poor AC class
-poor damage

So paladin shifter fixes 1st and 3rd problem and monk shifter fixes 2nd and DD enhances tanking which is what you can do with low damage and low AC but high resists.

[TGPO]

OK, we have plenty of information and opinions as to HOW shifter could be fixed. The discussion seems to have come around on itself on most points atleast twice and in some cases considerably more.

Next Topic Please.