PK/PvP, Any CoC on this one?

[HPD_234]

Im not sure how Okies work or how to tell if a PC is one unless they all put Okie in his/her name; but do they normally attack another PC 3 on 1, while he is resting? I've read many posts on them and no, this is not another ad for their enjoyment, but i believe that there are others out there with the same attitude.

A group of PC's last night, all with "Slave" in the name, attacked me at Ogre Pass, I just stood up from resting and started to buff when three "Reds" came into the area. I politly called off my Companion, who didn't get in a hit BTW, and before I could get my first buff off, all three attacked me after which i died very quickly. None of them said a word. Shortly after i respawned, the other PC that was in Ogre Pass near me PM'ed me that they ganged up on him too.

Ok, here's my beef with that:

The fact that I got killed doesn't bother me, really it doesn't. I didn't get an xp penalty and I was getting burdened anyway so i need to make a trip to the store. What bothers me is the way it went down.

First off three equal or near equal players ganging up on one player simply for the fact of killing him...while legal in NS isn't very honorable.

Secondly, although I have learned that this isn't an RP server by any means, I have stayed because of the great job and painstaking effort that has been and continues to be put into NS; but shouldn't there be some sort of reason or consent between players upon going PK (PvP)? Seriously, the simple fact that I belong to one faction and you belong to another, to me, isn't reason enough. And in the real world, and before i get any bashing for this I know this isn't anywere near real, unless you knew me personally, you wouldn't know that I belonged to a different FACTION immediatly upon seeing me. Unless one is pure evil and kills indiscriminantly, even his own kind, killing without provocation is just stupid and childish.

Now, I also understand that there are varying ages who play on NS and many different points of view on what is or is not standard PK practice. And there are some that say, "if you don't like it, you can just go elsewhere". And that's cool, they are exactly right, there are hundreds of PW's out there that don't allow PK, which is not what im looking for, and there are some that have standard guidlines about PK. So Im not asking to make any universal changes here and Im not asking that Okies and others of the same caliber have some great vision and see the err of their ways. All that I would ask is that the same courtesy be given to other PC's...you know, "do unto others..."

This will not happen because there are some snot-noses out there with Cheeto stains all over their keyboard and are still suffering from the multitude of wedgies they were subjected to in grammer school, that spend days of their lives in a dark room with only their computer to befriend, building a super uber character, or teaming up with other snot-noses so they can make others lives just as misserable as their own...Misery Does Love Company.

I also understand this, even snot-noses need an outlet. Therefore I continue my search for the Ultimate PW.

Keep up the good work here on NS guys, you have a really great thing going here and once the kinks are worked out and server issues resolved NS will last a very long time.

[Epistaxis]

Hi

Hehe, I found myself fighting the three slaves as well in Dark Forest. I actually had allot of fun out of this and I think you miss the huge oppertunies you get to rollplay when some renegades are murdering everyone passing the bridge in Dark Forest.

I came there with another group of three persons and met a very angry half-dragon at ogre path who was asking if we had seen the slaves as he was trying to hunt them down. Our small group of three would probably have survive our meeting with the slaves if we had prepared ourself first and attacked the slaves as a group. But we split up and was taken down one at a time totally unprepared I had just rested and started to buf myself the first time. I attacked them alone the second and third time and was killed each time but I almost had one of them

Some of the slaves friends gave me a rez the third time I went down as well as the fourth time I was killed when I challenged her to a duel ( she was impossible to me and killed me in two rounds ).

Thanks to the one who gave me a rez after I was killed the second time

I think this is the best incentitive to group up and roleplay.

A good advice which I often forget myself is to find a nice hidden spot to rest and buf.

Phew, I got killed allot that day now that I think about it.

[AndrewCarr]

Yeah, I zoned in from avendell, ran into 3 hostiles(one moderate, two effortless) with a summoned green dragon. So I did the logical thing imo, fought and killed them, and then killed the easy rogue that was trying to stealth behind me.

But then i was accused of killing random people, that was funny



Ran into the slaves later on though, fought one i think it was, and killed them.

But they were all pretty fun fights, and I guess now with all the millions of ppl on server 1 it pays to be a bit more cautious.

[IcemanXV]

It happens. I can understand the issue with you not being prepared, but faction play does entail that. I DO think that you being in another faction is enough reason to kill you. If you are a low level and passing by I tend not to care, But If you are near my level, or doing something against my faction (ie attacking me, my compatriots, my guards or allied guards) I am going to kill you.

The other day on server 1 I was running through killing some goblins on my way with minimal buffs on. Two decently buffed clerics around my level (~19-22) came in and immediately attacked me. I don't really think this is fair but in my case I was lucky enough to kill them both.

And I think the most cliche of answers sums up my thoughts: All is fair in love and war. I feel sorry that you've been "harassed", but think of anything outside your base as a war zone. Always be on your guard. Hey, once I was killed by a guy who was neutral to me in NS city. No warning, he came up behind me and instantly IKDed me till I was dead, then let me bleed to death so I got respawn penalty.

I asked for terminalinsanity's help, and we took on this cheesy palemaster build guy and killed him about 4 times, he just kept coming back for more. One day you will get your revenge Also remember ogres and giants is a hotspot so don't be surprised if you're attacked there. There are other leveling spots that are much less travelled.

I too ran into the slaves while trying to trade with andrew. We were meeting in front of avendell and slave tori just starts attacking him. Tori was neutral to me, but I found it annoying considering I wanted to trade and go to bed. So I gave her the touch of death and sent her on her way. I also made sure to tie everyone up with vine mine so they could all cool down a tad

[Daigoro]

Those all sound like fun stories, but is there any kind of policing of PKing? A couple friends of mine in the Northern Coalition were killed just outside of the city last night by a couple of Okies. The thing is, my friends were barely level two.

It's fun when you have some sort of a chance to fight back, but when it's your first day playing in neversummer and a couple high level jerks kill you without a word, that doesn't seem right to me. What's the fun in taking out new players with high level characters?

Is there an xp penalty for killing people who are effortless to you? Why is the Oakie group tolerated? From what I've read, they're mission seems to be harassment of any kind.

I also agree with the original poster in this topic: Killing someone in another faction is fine (fun even), but unless you know them somehow, how do you know they're in another faction? (and metagame stuff doesn't count, you should ask them where they're from or you should be a dwarf and recognize them as drow or something)

heh, I'm glad I chose northern coalition. My metagame opinions seem to agree well with their in game philosophy. Someone has to bring justice to this world!

[Lework]

Basically anything goes if they are an enemy faction, you can [censored] and gripe about it but it wont do much good. the best thing you can do is get 5 or 6 buddies of your own and go slave hunting.

this stuff happens to everyone..just let it go and keep playing. All the more reason to level your character.

on whether or not Okies do this...some do. Not all okies are true okies, a few of them are quite nice and are a blast to party with. I hate most okies myself but i still dont attack them unless its fair. For example last night I passed Okie Get and Okie Bent in Waste, they were effort to my high level wiz, i could of easily killed them, but i didnt since they were attacking a mob.

ive seen okies kill someone and have them pay gold to get rez'ed only to kill them again..dont trust them and assume they are capable of anything.

[DrakhanValane]

As a player: If they're red, kill 'em and move on. :) Just not in Avendell. Don't intentionally hunt someone down to their spawn point and keep killing them. You want PK policing? Ask some high level friends to smack someone down for killing you.

Okies aren't the only ones who PK, they're just the most infamous.

[Thorleif]

The fact of the matter is that its a dangerous world out there, and not just because of monsters... There are evil coalitions full of players who will kill anyone if they think they can get away with it, and they dont care whether or not you think its "fair". While we all agree that this is technically allowed on this server, i think that most people would also agree that people who slaughter others who are way lower lvl than they
are or who are already in a weakened/vulnerable state are just lame..

Thats why the best thing to do is to get so powerful that nobody can mess with you, or if you get ganged up on then round up a lot of friends/allies and waste them, i find this to be great fun In reality most pvpers are cowards, they like to pick on weaker chars but usually run when confronted with a tough fight. So lvl up everyone and we will show them the might of the Norther Coalition

[Hulgaru]

While I love the infamy... people have to understand: Yes, Okies seem to kill a lot... mostly because we're used to getting killed a lot.

Case in point. I portalled to Black hills, saw 4 other players around the entrance, I said Hi, they stopped their duel and attacked. I was fortunate to kill one before the other three took me down. They were all moderate or challenging to me. I came back and they almost got me again, but the fun part was all the trash talk that sprouted up afterwards.

On the one hand, I'm sorry for your frustration, on the other hand... if you get smacked down by an Okie, appeal to the server for a little help... but don't whine about it. Try to organize a "hunt", announce where the Okie is... whatever. Most of the time, there are players on that have no qualms whatsoever with dropping what they're doing to hunt some errant Okies.

Mind you, most Okies aren't so easy to take down...

For more information on the Okie Menace, please see the website:
http://www.cultofokie.com

[Jumbalaya]

Well, having been the victim of many, many pk's, I can tell you that yes, it gets annoying.

It especially gets annoying when you are level 3 and are minding your own business, are caught in a stonehold, killed, then because of the "wonderful" way respawning works, you respawn trapped and are killed again.

The thing I am hearing from many people is this : level up as fast as you possibly can because then you won't be pk'd as much...

Huh? So basically it's all a race to get to level 40, and then rain death on any poor SoB that gets in your way? Seems to me( and this is prolly just me) that is not a real good way to go about building comradery and a good playing environment.

Frankly, killing a level 1 or 2 or 3 is wrong no matter what. If you are level 15, why the heck are you killing someone who quite frankly is no threat to you at all? Yes, sometimes their level 1 summons accidentally attack you, but if you are level 15 and a penguin or a dire badger or whatever attacks you, why not just tell the lowby to get away, rather than griefing them?

And the fact that there are times when the factions do not work ( everyone in the playing list is friendly when half are from hostile factions) makes it even harder.

If a lowby makes a sincere effort to get out of your way, as a higer level character, then the decent thing is to let them be. If they are stupid and come up to you and attack you then yes, defend yourself. But if they try to circumvent where you are, to take the long way home, then don't go chasing after them to slaughter them.

The problem is that this has the possibility of spiralling out of control to the point where being a level 1 or 2 or 3 is suicide unless you get into huge parties for safety.

[HPD_234]

Couple of things I probably must clarify from my original post:

First; if it seems that Im "whining", I apologise. The intent was not to seem whiny. I understand PvP and the whole Faction thing; at least I think I do. I just feel that there should be some rhyme to the reason. I wouldn't dream of playing in a PW where PvP is never an option. As stated before that is not the intent of my concerns.

Second; I'm not sure what level these three were but I would imagine, that since we were all hunting Ogre Pass, they were close to or equal level to myself (lvl 13 at the time). Therefore, youth is not an excuse in this case. It was the fact that there were three of them and I went out of my way to avoid them and was smited without even a word.

Like I said before, I understand that it is a dangerous land and that not everyone is going to adhere to the same standards on PvP if it is not written in stone. Do unto others, is merely a suggestion that I know all will not adhere too. PKing just for the sake of killing is just not my cup of tea which is probably why I won't be playing on NS much longer.

Tis sad though, cause there is a great thing going here and possible some rules of engagement will surface in the final version of NS4. Till then...

[IcemanXV]

General ground rules work.

However if people are worried about this I hope you never play in places like DSO (dark sun online). Anything outside of the city is literally fair game. Its harsh, but it's also an RP place, and all kills and such were within the context of the game.

Quite frankly I have been called on "griefing". I do not think I am a griefer. Sure, I've killed PCs way lower levels than I am. But I have my reasons. Also keep in mind I do not examine players. This means I kill those lower AND higher than myself. I like faction play and I like being at war and never being invulnerable. Here are my usual guidelines for myself:

1. They attack me (duh! insta-kill)

2. Their minions attack me. I wait for about 4 or 5 rounds. If this player doesn't call them off, I kill the minion. I usually leave a warning. If they seem to not respond, I kill them. Hard knock life, gotta learn somehow. If the player is sorry or understands, I leave them be. If you don't know how to call off your minion then NS is not the place to start learning the game. I suggest firing up the OC.

3. They are in an area that I'm leveling in. Usually I give a warning to leave. I get alot of smartass remarks back, to which usually is answered by a finger of death. All in the context of faction play. I am not a greedy person but my character is a druid (loner) so any extra people are just a hindrance. This rule usually supercedes them all. If I don't want them there, I let them know. If they don't listen I will dispatch them myself. I level in open "neutral" territories. If I see a lowbie out there killing things, I am going to make sure he understands he gets his lowbie levels near his home faction city. If you are in neutral territory it is your fault for not bringing backup, quite frankly.

4. They personally make life hard for me. This includes ninja looting on city raids, and continually breaking my rest. I don't care who you are. If you're a jerk you're going to meat the hot end of a lightning bolt.

Those are the rules I fly by. I don't think any of them to be unreasonable within the context of this module. If anyone wants to question those ethics I more than happily will take them up in debate.


Also keep in mind I have been killed several times myself. In fact many of the times were by higher level players, completely unprovoked. Of course I'm going to get killed by okie reagan of NS if I run past NS gates and I'm RK. That just makes sense.

[AlienOverlord]

A comment about people not knowing your faction until they talk to you...how often do you talk to the ogres and see if any of them are reasonable ogres? Just one way to look at it. Whether you kill everything that is red or just the npcs that are red is up to you, but some people will choose to kill everything red either because they are jerks or because they think you may attack them. I've been pvp killed a lot and it only bugs me when there is a screw up and i lose xp, even then I don't worry about it (unless the same people did it over and over and I lost xp each time, then I'd get frustrated).

[HPD_234]

Well, what I find is that these griefers tend to camp places that are often visited. They stay in invis mode and wait for some unsuspecting victim to come along and BLAM hit them with an insta kill spell or something. This is what these guys do, this is all they do. Run around and look for people to grief.

Ogres and the like are common enemies to all and it's much easier to ID and ogre and know it's hostile than it is to ID other PC's whom look just like anyone else.

Look, im not bitching, and this will be the last time I post on this thread cause I don't want to seem like a whiner. It's cool, I understand how the Faction thing works now and have accepted that. This is no longer an issue for me in NS. I merely wanted to post a concern and see if this is common practice for this PW; it is. No hard feelings or anything like that.

Have fun

[Talos]

This are a full PvP mod right?, and if you dont like that this are not the place for you. Every week I come here to read whats new in the forum and every week there some complaing about PKing.

Here are some guidelines there might help you.

1. If you travel alone you are asking for it, so dont travel alone make a party.

2. try offer them a bribe it works been trying that many times.

3. offer a bounty for the killer as you know where he is right, and if its a Okie or a slave I know many who will hunt them down for free.

Wake up people war are upon us, and we have to ajust to it.

And before you start complaining about that Im in a guild and and can get all the good gear and nobody have the guts to kill me, I can only say its a lie as I have been killed many time and I have killed manytimes in selfdefence.