Shifter fix?

[Spura]

Watch out for weapons with wrong damage type. Melding +1d10 blunt weapon onto drider will make his spear do +1d10 blunt and due to NWN engine bug all pysical damage in one hit counts as one type and always worst type for the attacker. If they have you spear will do blunt damage vs blunt resistant enemies and piercing vs piercing resistant enemies. Just be careful what you use.

[Epistaxis]

Watch out for weapons with wrong damage type. Melding +1d10 blunt weapon onto drider will make his spear do +1d10 blunt and due to NWN engine bug all pysical damage in one hit counts as one type and always worst type for the attacker. If they have you spear will do blunt damage vs blunt resistant enemies and piercing vs piercing resistant enemies. Just be careful what you use.

Arhh, that explains my problems with the drider shapes piercing spear. I normally wield a schimitar with slahing bonus which is transfered to the spear. I think I will find me a nice piercing weapon to supplement my schimitar and club.

Thanks allot for the info

[Spura]

I said I would get back.

How are you playing Druid? They've always been a very strong class in NWN--only cleric is stronger imo. In a party druids are great disablers, back-up nukers, possible front-liners or back-up healers.

I am speaking of shifter here and when I was tell Epistaxis which roles he can't play, it was about 10 druid 30 shifter. Now 10 druid isn't gonna make even backup healer at lvl 40, he isn't nuker and not disabler. I think you missed the point, that is we were talking druid shifter multi not pure druid(Which I never claimed it sucked,though his spells are too often reflex) .

[AlienOverlord]

The monk is a nice fit and you can't do dd, but how about adding rogue to the build? You will at least get tumble for a few more AC, plus evasion and sneak attacks. The problem would be when you solo since you'd want to max shifter to get all the shapes, but you'd want high druid levels for strong summons to distract so you can sneak, but you'd want lots of rogue for sneak damage. Still, by level 20 going druid 7/ rogue 3/ shifter 10 you'd get stoneskin for your level 4 summon and you'd get 2d6 sneak. You'd probably ant to tweak that as it would kill your bab, but I think you have some choices besides monk you will just have a different role and will be better in party play.

[rkanodia]

The Circle doesn't allow rogues. My shifter (planning on a druid 8/shifter 8/something 4 for the first twenty levels, then all shifter except for cheese levels) is currently contemplating cheesing some bard levels, which offer some unique advantages. Namely, Spellcraft (cross-class for shifters), Tumble (really really need the bonus AC!), and Discipline, so I can actually stand up to a fighter every now and then. Besides, a character named Doctor Bombay just wouldn't be complete without bardsong

[Spura]

Recently I was led to believe I could get around faction restrictions by killing some of faction's staff. So I made druid 5 shifter 3 and I killed soem stuff till they were hostile(I all shopkeepers in melencia). They I found out after putting many hours into this, that I still can't take monk arghhh.

After that fiasco I started looking for an epic shifter to help me with his experience. After quite some observation of class lists on log in I have noticed 2 shifters, both below level 10. I happened to meet one of them and he told me he was going multiclass into rouge. I laughed so hard. He went on to complain about how that totally ruined his build and so on and on. Lol.

Anyway I think that unless you open up multiclassing options for shifters they will be a dead class. I haven't seen anyone have 15+ shifter and we have loads of 20+ chars already. Most shifter players simply give up because at level 12 to 15 they are just unable to level with gimped shifters much less kill a boss with it. Heck, I went full druid and I leveled almost exclusively by killing amazons while they were in stonehold. Simply put, currently shifters are a pain to level in 13+ because the summons from the few druid levels don't do anything and melee capabilities are so so so damn low.

My druid 5 shifter 3 is always in human shape. There is NO reason whatsoever to use wildshape. When I reached level 6 and took my first shifter level I was astonished. When I shapechanged, my AC dropped by 6!! By SIX!! So thus a creature with 1 AB would now hit me 30% of the time instead of 5%. Hey thanks for nothing devs. Now goblins can take my char down if there are more than 5 of them. Minotaur, AC goes down by 5. I was in a party of 4 and any time I came near to giant as a minotaur he switched to me and I took about 40 damage almost immediately. I ended up being a wyrmling spaming fire breath for 7 damage average and doing about 10% of the party damage.

Before that I tried different approach: Going as far as possible in other classes. So I went 16 druid. Then I would go 4 ranger and then shifter. Well since it is 7 levels of shifter till first decent shape without monk that means I will have to use 16 level druid for 12 levels before I will be able to go melee. The sheer task of that makes me lose interest in making it. Anyway I think everyone who ever played shifter on this server agrees with me.

I know devs are planning for whole overhaul of shifter but I know that they won't make things any better. They will probably make him like summons. With his BAB progression it will be like a cleric without buffs(specifically AB ones) who looks differently and has some various marginal resistances.

[Spura]

Druid10/shifter10:
Tiger: AC:33 HP: 226/166 TH:+25 DAM:2-8+11
The other two shapes recieved are unable to delliver more than 10 damage on each attack.

There is no way to get 33 AC with that build. Dire tiger gets 8 inner AC, 3 AC from dex, let's say you have 5 dex boots, that is 2 AC more and you get 3 natural from barkskin. Put another +3 from armor. 10+8+3+2+3+3=29 AC.

I met a guy yesterday with 50 AC on his nondexer char. Those 29 AC at lvl 20 doesn't do ANYTHING. A level 20 fighter type NPC with 20 str and +3 weapon will miss only when rolling 1. AC is too low!!

Epic shapes:
Druid10/shifter13:
Risen Lord: AC:36 HP:297/237 TH:+28 DAM:3-16+17
Spectre: AC:41 HP:172/132 TH:+20 DAM:1-8+5

Druid10/shifter18:
Epic Kobold Commando: AC:44 TH:+33 DAM:4-22+10 (+sneak)
Epic Drow: AC:43 TH:+32 DAM:4-24+14
Azer Chieftain: AC:37 HP:382/332 TH:+30 DAM:3-18+12
Death Slaath: AC:43 TH:+26 DAM:3-18+8
Rakshasa: AC:40 TH:+29 DAM:3-24+11

All the AC numbers here are generally wrong.
I will just show you some of the higher ones.

Epic kobold commando gets 10 base AC + 13 shape AC +6 dex AC +2 dex AC from boots +3 items AC +3 barkskin and say +2 tumble = 39 AC which is very very low for an epic character. In NS3 I made 61 AC character without IE when SoU came out. Now you can make 90 AC character. Anyway all these AC numbers are a bit inflated. Remember this: I figure that in epic areas there will be +4 AC items available. If I character with 3 AC items changes those for 4 his AC will go up by 5 and shifters AC will go up by 1(since AC types don't stack). Hence the monk. That, and unarmed attacks.

[rkanodia]

Hi everybody. Just wanted to let the various Shifter debaters know that I've posted a topic in the player polls section for ya. Have fun.

[Epistaxis]

Druid10/shifter10:
Tiger: AC:33 HP: 226/166 TH:+25 DAM:2-8+11
The other two shapes recieved are unable to delliver more than 10 damage on each attack.

There is no way to get 33 AC with that build. Dire tiger gets 8 inner AC, 3 AC from dex, let's say you have 5 dex boots, that is 2 AC more and you get 3 natural from barkskin. Put another +3 from armor. 10+8+3+2+3+3=29 AC.

I met a guy yesterday with 50 AC on his nondexer char. Those 29 AC at lvl 20 doesn't do ANYTHING. A level 20 fighter type NPC with 20 str and +3 weapon will miss only when rolling 1. AC is too low!!

I do not hope you took the 50AC from a cleric because that is unfair as the cleric with all the buffs are stronger than everyone I think. The shifters shapes do give you allot of extra abilities that you need to use to gain an advantage. The 20 level char with 10 shifter levels have the mindflayer shape to give him temporary damage reduction, then change into the drider or drow and cast darkness and you have 50% conceal, then finish with the tiger for heavy damage or kobold commando for better ac and sneaks.

Epic shapes:
Druid10/shifter13:
Risen Lord: AC:36 HP:297/237 TH:+28 DAM:3-16+17
Spectre: AC:41 HP:172/132 TH:+20 DAM:1-8+5

Druid10/shifter18:
Epic Kobold Commando: AC:44 TH:+33 DAM:4-22+10 (+sneak)
Epic Drow: AC:43 TH:+32 DAM:4-24+14
Azer Chieftain: AC:37 HP:382/332 TH:+30 DAM:3-18+12
Death Slaath: AC:43 TH:+26 DAM:3-18+8
Rakshasa: AC:40 TH:+29 DAM:3-24+11

All the AC numbers here are generally wrong.
I will just show you some of the higher ones.

Epic kobold commando gets 10 base AC + 13 shape AC +6 dex AC +2 dex AC from boots +3 items AC +3 barkskin and say +2 tumble = 39 AC which is very very low for an epic character. In NS3 I made 61 AC character without IE when SoU came out. Now you can make 90 AC character. Anyway all these AC numbers are a bit inflated. Remember this: I figure that in epic areas there will be +4 AC items available. If I character with 3 AC items changes those for 4 his AC will go up by 5 and shifters AC will go up by 1(since AC types don't stack). Hence the monk. That, and unarmed attacks.

Nope, the specs I wrote is correct. The extra AC I have is from magic armor (+4) which I get from all the potions and items with magic armor I gathered I took my saved character and loaded him in a single player module and gave him a few extra levels. I have done nothing else with him and have used only the items found in NS.
Barkskin on my char is +4 as he is level 9 druid and not +3. A few more druid levels and it would be +5.

The AC might be lower than other characters in NS4 but the high ACs from NS3 is not comparable. You forget the nice immunities and damage reduction you have with many of the shapes, just take a quick look at the Risen Lord whow is good in combat even with the low ac of 36. None of the other classes are able to archive the same level of reduction and immunities with the equipment availbale in NS4.

I do agree that the current shifter save bug is making the shifter unplayable. I have created a new character and waits until the 1.63 patch is released and installed before I go back.

Was the charater you met a cleric? It is only fair that a buffed cleric or fighter have better ac than the shifter. The shifter is not supposed to stand up in combat as well as a fighter using only one shape. You have allot of different shapes with allot of very nice extra abilities and immunites. You know even the wyrmling shape is useful in PvP. The truesight has helped my group before against a hostile wizard with improved invis

[Epistaxis]

If you use the the mindflayer first to gain damagereduction for a shorth period of time and change into a drider or drow and cast darkness and you will have 50% conceal. Then change into the tiger to deal allot of damage or kobold commando to sneak the monsters. You might even be able to take them down with the mindflayer using the mindblast if the saves are low enough.
Or simple hide in the darkness and change into a manticore and spam away with spikes on other archers. You should offcourse remember to cast ultravision first

[IcemanXV]

My fighter (lvl 22) with a 2-handed weapon has 31 AC.

I don't really know what your gripes are if you have a kobold with 39AC. That's as high as my druid's AC fully buffed (caster druid).

[Spura]

My fighter (lvl 22) with a 2-handed weapon has 31 AC.

I don't really know what your gripes are if you have a kobold with 39AC. That's as high as my druid's AC fully buffed (caster druid).

That is epic kobold commando. That means 27 level or more. Fighter can get 10 base + 9 full plate and dex +3 tower shield +3 armor AC +3 deflection AC +3 natural AC +3 dodge AC +3 shield AC and 2 tumble AC. That is 39 AC. And that is with +3 items. You have to remember, epic items are not yet released. When that fighter gets +4 items, you get 44 AC, kobold becomes 40. With +5 items, Kobold is 41, other guy is 49. Currently there are no epic items available and it looks ok now. Besides epic kobold is one of the max AC shapes. Are you suggesting that I wait till I reach level 27 or in my case 29? How am I supposed to level before that? Other shapes have much lower AC than this one shape. The other thing that makes this uncomparable is the fact that a 2 hander kills things a lot faster and thus monsters get much fewer attacks on him. Usual fight with challenging level monster lasts 3 minutes for me and I am sure it is much shorter for you. Because I deal small amounts of damage I have longer fights and low AC hurts a lot more as the fight goes on.

[Spura]

[quote="Epistaxis]
Nope, the specs I wrote is correct. The extra AC I have is from magic armor (+4) which I get from all the potions and items with magic armor I gathered
[/quote]My level 20 character managed to get 6 mage armor potions in a week, I can't get anyone to sell me some and last but not the least, mage armor potions are level 2 casts of mage armor=very short duration.

I don't think you gain 4 AC from mage armor since it gives: 1 deflection 1 armor 1 dodge 1 natural and natural doesn't stack with barkskin.
So you achieved a bit higher AC with the use of a short lasting potion buff that can't be bought at vendors. Also, yes, the losing of item properties is currently maddening, lowering AC even more.

You forget the nice immunities and damage reduction you have with many of the shapes, just take a quick look at the Risen Lord whow is good in combat even with the low ac of 36. None of the other classes are able to archive the same level of reduction and immunities with the equipment availbale in NS4.

You are kidding me right? We don't even have epic items yet and I can already have 40% immunity to damage type on items+20% to 2 elemental damage types. Let's not forget normal character can swap shields in battle while it takes me 2 rounds to take different shape, if I come across other damage type. Also notice that there is no good shape vs blunt(blunt will, in fact, always totally eat shifter).

You know even the wyrmling shape is useful in PvP. The truesight has helped my group before against a hostile wizard with improved invis

Really? How? Others can't see him and you can't do squat to him. All you can do is tell them he is there and he still gets the first shot off. But you are right there are nifty abilities, but I need a tank for most and I will likely have summon 3 up to lvl 15 so there's that.

[Epistaxis]

Hi Spura

You find allot of small white crystals with 3 charges of mage armor on the goblins and bugbears surounding Melencia. It does not take long for high level to harvest a few mage armor crystals. I might have been lucky with the loot as I have around 40 mage armors including potions on my 15 level character.
It could be that you are right about mage armor not stacking with barkskin, have not noticed whether it stacks or not.

I am also a bit afraid that the comming epic items will widen the gap between the shifter and the rest of the epic classes.

Hmmm, have not myself collected many high level items in NS4 yet. Was not aware that you can get that much immunities from higher level items.

The wyrmling is good against a sneaky wizard who thinks he is invis and follows your group around and lets his summon attack you. Belive me even a small wyrmling can stress a high level wizard like an anoying insect

[Epistaxis]

Find a wizard and trade some potions with him if you need allot more mage armor potions than you can find.