In Game Chat

RumblingSky · Post by **RumblingSky** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:47 am

Now, I'm sure this would meet with heavy opposition since it is more like an asthetic change as opposed to an actual game mechanic change.. but.. eh..

One of the largest problems I have playing with NS is that there are prett much no guidelines for chatting. Sure, there are the obvious.. no profanity.. no harassment.. etc..

However, as much as I don't like one of the other servers I've tried playing on (when I couldn't log into my character here), the one thing I admire (and actually keeps me playing there on occasion) is their chat guidelines.

Basically.. Any time you use Talk, you're speaking in character. Any time you use Party or Tell it is out of character. And the biggest one is that Shout is not allowed.

It is clear to me that Bio didn't put a lot of thought into the multiplayer chat system, so it's kind of up to us to take over there.

Now, my biggest peeve on the whole system is Shout. Before anyone jumps on me about how "necessary" it is for things like Town defense.. even if you were literally shouting, only those within the sound of your voice would hear you anyway. Someone in Arkansas doesn't hear me shouting from Georgia, for instance.

To me, this is just as much a "realism" issue as it is an annoying one. It sucks when your chat screen is spammed with little more than simple chatter. I also don't want to shut off Shout becuase if a server goes down or something, I'd like to think someone would use Shout to let others know so they can avoid any portaling problems. I dunno..

Just a thought on something that really shouldn't matter to anyone who isn't like minded.. but I encourage responses none-the-less..

Heron · Post by **Heron** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:31 pm

I personally would be in favor of removing the Shout channel (except for server announcements and such).

Silent Bob · Post by **Silent Bob** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:42 pm

If you don't like Shout, don't use it. You can also Exclude shouts from your chat box.

RumblingSky · Post by **RumblingSky** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:24 pm

**EDIT**

I've decided to retract my comment at this time.. everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if I already addressed it in the opening post.

But I will ask this.. why is it necessary to be able to just chat publically across the server where everyone can see it? What do you accomplish with this that a tell or party chat couldn't aside from breaking the mood or atmosphere of the RP environment?

Heron · Post by **Heron** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:43 pm

The reason I would recommend removing the shout channel is to promote more of an RP environment. The server maybe RP optional, but with all the shouts (which are never in character) it’s hard to get into the RP.

I think it would be best if only the server and gods (DMs) had access to shout.

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:50 pm

RumblingSky wrote:**EDIT**

I've decided to retract my comment at this time.. everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if I already addressed it in the opening post.

But I will ask this.. why is it necessary to be able to just chat publically across the server where everyone can see it? What do you accomplish with this that a tell or party chat couldn't aside from breaking the mood or atmosphere of the RP environment?

Sometimes you're by yourself and you don't feel like playing russian roulette with tells until you can find someone to answer a question you have.

This isn't an RP server. Removing shout and forcing people in character in talk forces them to play an RP style. The way it is now, there are no limitations.

Not everyone likes to RP. Every video game has a global chat function. Reality aside, it is necessary to be able to keep lines of communication open. I know I abuse shout sometimes but I also use it to answer the plethora of questions n00bs have.

Shouts to "lfg" are also a viable reason. Not everyone walks onto the server having a million friends.

And I think that's the main thing.....this is not an RP "environment". The game was set up to be a game you play and do stuff in. The RP is up to you.

I played on a custom server called Dor Maeglin. It was awesome, and was purposefully RP. But the creator got annoyed, and disabled shout. Oh man, everyone was pissed. The game was built around partying, and we all were left stranded unless we knew people. Eventually we just all joined one party and used party talk.

Think of Shout as a necessary evil. Forcing people to talk in character blows. I guarantee more people will leave than come in.

rkanodia · Post by **rkanodia** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:41 pm

I agree with Iceman on this one. I learned about online gaming in the context of a highly social, non-RP MUD in the early 90s, and then Quake/Quakeworld. To me, the social aspect of online gaming is important. One of the things that makes me like NS4 (as opposed to a lot of other persistant worlds) is its freewheeling atmosphere. There aren't any Roleplaying Fascists in NS4 waiting to berate you for slipping out of character or threaten to tell the administrator on you for having a discussion on the shout channel. So sue me if I'm not 'in character' 100% of the time. I log on to NS4 to play a game, and I actually enjoy the conversation of my fellow gamers. I definitely support an open, relatively unmoderated shout channel. If you think it detracts from your game experience, you can always turn it off.

RumblingSky · Post by **RumblingSky** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:12 pm

Hmm.. I have a hard time with it being necessary for finding groups, personally. The other server I've been playing on is Exaria and the shout option was removed there. Yet, I am always running into people. I generally solo until I do and when I do there is no shortage of groups. I find that the shout options lends to less of a need for a group (especially for newer players) simply because you do not need someone else to show you around. You can just ask your questions generally. And trust me.. I knew fewer people there than I do here (mainly because I participate in the forums so often here that I'm getting to know people this way).. now that I think about it, there have only been 2 groups in the last week I've been in that had the same people in it.

But please keep in mind (especially if you're leaning toward calling me a RP Facist) that I did conduct a poll to see what style of play the majority of people preferred. This is how it has broken down: A gentle mixture of all of the above with (or without) a twist of lemon - 51%, Social interaction and character development - 21%, Endless powerleveling (well, until you reach the level max) - 12%, Hardcore questing and story development - 9%, Combat, combat and oh yeah, constant mind-numbing violence (mainly PvE) - 6% and Non-stop PvP my character can kick your character's butt mayhem - 0%. Not a single vote for straight up PvP play.

The consesus was that people preferred a mix of RP and PvP first and straight RP second. That is why I ended up making this post.

I've actually found PvPers to be more aggressive about preserving their playstyle than anyone else. RPers are generally accepting because they have to be. They are the dying breed.. "Video killed the Roleplaying troupe".. lol

Granted, I *was* under the impression that this was a server that encouraged all styles of play, yet I find much less encouragement for RP than anything else.. which is why I thought a small gesture such as this one would not be out of line.

As far as the social aspects are concerned.. well that's what I'm talking about preserving here. Without any sort of in character interaction or character development, all you are left with is a first person shooter..

Please.. offer up more comments, folks..

*Edit** Oh and if you're wondering.. I'm mainly trying to get discussions going here simply because I really enjoy the world here overall more than any other. So just in case anyone is thinking, "If you don't like it, leave," I'd rather not.. I like it here.. and all of the people I've met.

Post by **Lokey** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:18 pm

For beta shout has a purpose, i.e. "Why won't Hanatoi identify this sword, is that a bug?"

After that, we'll see.

Qui · Post by **Qui** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:18 pm

Rumblle.. If you right click the chat window you can remove shout form YOUR window.. and you wont see those messages anymore.. we are open to let everyone do what they want... i think that includes letting people shout.. some people like shouting.. you can remove yourself from shout world by no longer viewing those messages...

Qui · Post by **Qui** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:24 pm

GAH.. dont take my shout lokey!!

rkanodia · Post by **rkanodia** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:06 pm

RumblingSky, the thing is, I don't see removing the shout channel as a 'small gesture'. As far as the 'everybody who wants to gossip can form a party', I do admit that it would be better if Neverwinter Nights had a real chat server with an opt-in out-of-character channel for random discussions and chatter. But on the other hand, if you propose to shut down the shout channel entirely... why not just consider shout to be the out-of-character channel for random discussions and chatter? It's much easier to say 'People who don't want shouts, click the no-shout button' than 'Everyone who wants to talk, send a message to XYZ person, who hopefully is nice enough to invite you, and forget about being able to use party chat as a means of actually conducting a party.'

You say that the shout channel detracts from your experience. I say that it enhances mine. Believe it or not, I generally enjoy hearing people express/discuss game concerns, talk about interesting things that happened in the game, and sometimes just shoot the breeze. And no, I wouldn't prefer all of that to be in character ("Rumor from Qui is that Lokey told him that RumblingSky told him that a bugged zombie critted him for 4000 points of damage the other day..."); call me a whippersnapper but if an efficient means of such conversations exists - like the shout channel - I prefer to use it.

Also, just for a note - "social interaction and character development" includes social interaction, not just character development. And who says that the shout channel prohibits character development? Disciple Vintner's character development happens largely via shout...

QuickLightning · Post by **QuickLightning** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:42 pm

I personally believe shout being removed would be a good thing for the server...introduction of a PC Scrying Device might fix any problems with good finding etc.

Introduce and item that can send out shouts. This item, given to a player upon joining the game would function to:

A.) setup a LFG beacon. This item, when used, could list out all the current player names along with their respective levels. Players could also use this item and put sidenotes into their current character beacon (such as; Looking For Group). I've seen a few servers use this such as the WMW servers. It is very useful with or without shout disable as it can cut down on shouting if it is enabled or eliminate problems with the shout being disabled.

B.) shout out enemy advances (i know this is possible) such as 1-2 options maybe one being enemy spotting (followed by listing of the players current location as to where the enemy was spotted) and maybe one depicting a battle occuring along with the location the player is at again. (including the players name doing the shout to prevent someone from relentlessly spamming it just to annoy people)

~I don't think these would need to be coded by the DMs themselves (well...B might have to) A im sure could be received from another kind dev in another mod.

Just my 2 cents

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:42 pm

I just personally think that for "accepting" as you say RP people are, disabling shout is sure pretty limiting to those who don't want to RP.

FORCING people to RP in talk?

I also think that disabling shout is just a MAJOR change...

I am all for a more RP oriented server. But I also don't like shoving RP down the players' throats when NS nowhere clearly says it is a RP server. It is in PW action for a reason I would think.

bongoblue · Post by **bongoblue** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:44 pm

so, does this mean we will be using /ooc ?