pvp + experience

Qui · Post by **Qui** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:02 am

I've been really thinking the pvp needs 'legitimized' lately in that it doesnt actually do anything.. you are in a war.. but gain no advantage.. Why not treat the hostile PCs as hostile creatures and give exp equal to the lvl aboveor below you hey are? That would atleast amke the pvp war something worthwhile for the high lvl chars to partake in. Dont make the hotile player lose any exp, People will whine... but i see there would need to be a way to keep people form exploiting this by repeatedly killing eachother for exp.. any ideas on this? Good idea? Bad idea? no one cares?

Epistaxis · Post by **Epistaxis** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:52 am

It sounds like a really good idea and could be fun I think

. A solution could be that a character actively volunteer to the faction army and then get the xp from killing hostile faction members whom has voluntered as well.
The more peaceful characters who has not volunteered will not get xp from killing hostile faction members and will not give xp to those whom defeat him.

A tag to the name or color could be added to the members of each factions army to be able to reconize when one has joined the city defense or not.

Brennan068 · Post by **Brennan068** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:09 am

Good idea with a major flaw. It would be to easy to exploit as proposed, and you mentioned the exploit... lvl 20 char takes off all gear and disarms, lets lvl 10 char kill him, lvl 10 char gets a heap o' exp. for no threat.

I think that the defender threads are on the right track. A reward, not necessarily an advantage.

If you are trying to encourage more pvp, your idea would do it. If you are trying to encourage rp or pg within the context of the war, try this idea on:

I think there should be more rift shards and have some of them capturable. The capital rifts should not be capturable, but, for example, the ones in the NC outposts should be. Every faction should have the same number of starting outposts and capture means a set of your faction's defenders would spawn in there to defend it and the map that it is on. This would simulate the fluctuating lines of battle. The advantage here would be if you put the effort into capturing a rift, you would have effectively established a "safe point" to rest and recouperate for your character and his/her faction. Conditions for capture: eliminate all of the current holder's defenders (pc & npc) from the map, effectively, require no hostiles on the map. Then "claim" the rift shard. PC's would (or should) try to defend these because as I said above, they allow you a safe place to rest. Ideal places for these would be in the midst of dangerous levelling areas.

QuickLightning · Post by **QuickLightning** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:41 pm

Brenn, a lvl 10 char would get more XP from using a summon and killing lvl 12 monsters, there is an XP cap after all.

Brennan068 · Post by **Brennan068** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:52 pm

Quick,

not at a rift shard he wouldn't.. As long as the high level char was willing to play along, the lower level char could continue to kill him for exp sitting in the same room as the shard. Controlled high level respawn == exploited experience if this idea is implimented as suggested.

Knightwing4 · Post by **Knightwing4** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:09 pm

go ahead with it, if someone exploits it, it will be dealt with as other exploits are dealt with (ban/bye bye)

SmurfZG · Post by **SmurfZG** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:28 pm

I think that the exp you gain from killing a pc should be equal to the exp he loses from respawning, and the exp you get is based on the lvl of yourself vs the lvl of the hostile pc. So a high level would gain little or nothing by killing a low level and the low lvl wouldn't lose any exp from respawning, and at the same time a low level would gain a huge amount of exp for killing a high level, but the high level would also lose a huge amount if he chooses to respawn.

The only problem with this is exploiting by ressurections and raising, but I'm sure the devs can find a way to fix that

Qui · Post by **Qui** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:44 pm

well, alot of people will protest pvp all together if they lose exp through it.. But i think the community needs to get together and come up with a good idea for adding 'value' to pvp.. more value if you dont turn on your faction.. thats easy for the devs to implement.. giving experience for slaying hostile PCs would work.. As a very temproary sort of 'patch up' job.. not a permanent fix.. if there was an EASY way to keep it from beign exploitable.. the key here is easy ideas the devs have enough complicated scripting to do.. the only way of getting a boon like this is if its somethign easy.. the exp script could be just referenced in the same way its reference hen killing a monster.. that seems easy to me.. its mostly the same script.. but keeping ti from being exploited.. the idea to just let it be 'monitored and dealt with like any explot' is all fine and good but DMS arent on all the time.. and you can tell if a DM is on by looking at the player list when u log in.. they have chars logged in you can see on the list that you cant see in game such as "<name> God of <blah>" thats a lvl 1 char.. but not really.. so u coudl see when that ARENT on and do the exploit then.. the solution could be to force changes in bind points? Say if there is a battle.. your soul is unable to settle at that bind point because of the blood or battle there so 1) their is a time limit to respawn (and by area i mean anywhere within a reasonable time period and this would only apply when dieing to pvp combat. 2) the shard say.. being inteligent enough to drop you either at your alliance's capital bind point or if u dont have an alliance the closest neutral bind (away from the 'area' in which you died..).. i think both of these are 'easy' as far as the scripting goes.. i could be wrong.. the first people will argue is to inconvenient, the second will be once again be vulnerable to exploitation... but thats all i got for now..

RumblingSky · Post by **RumblingSky** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 8:51 pm

Well, if it were implimented even closely as stated..

1) The xp you would get should be less for killing a player than for killing a critter. The idea is to promote PvP by giving you *some* incentive, but not making it the most common way of experience gain.

2) The victim *should* lose xp. Let em whine. If that is how they want to solve their problems, do we really need em here anyway? But maybe make the xp loss half of what it would normally be.

If there is a benefit to winning there should be a disadvantage to losing. Whille this is by no means scientific, I feel this is a strong example of "give and take".

Firkraag · Post by **Firkraag** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:55 pm

RumblingSky, You were just the one who said there should be a cap that High Lvls can not kill low lvls.

If you lose xps people will greif Kill. This has been talked over and over again.

But I do agree with that we get xps for a PvP kill. Just dont have any ideas on how though.

Qui · Post by **Qui** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:05 pm

yuh yuh firk. the how of something is always the hard part

RumblingSky · Post by **RumblingSky** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:57 am

Firkraag wrote:RumblingSky, You were just the one who said there should be a cap that High Lvls can not kill low lvls.

If you lose xps people will greif Kill. This has been talked over and over again.

But I do agree with that we get xps for a PvP kill. Just dont have any ideas on how though.

Yes.. however, this is a different discussion and I try to be supportive of other people's ideas.. even if I don't agree with them. In a case where I might not agree, I try to offer alternate solutions.

In this case, currently PvP is open to anyone and everyone.. regardless of what I think of the institution as a whole, if left alone it could use some tweaking.

If you lose XP for dying or gain XP for winning is irrelevant to harassment. Harassment will and does happen regardless and there is no "reward" for it now. People generally harass others in games due to a lack of respect, other things to do or thanks to the feeling of anonymity and invinsibility the internet offers.

After all, the DMs should be cracking down on it (this was all in another post by Qui, I believe) and griefing of this nature is very easy to prove. I think that would be a poor reason to discount a balanced suggestion.

Also, keep in mind that if the loser is losing XP, you have effectively solved the problem of people exploiting by allowing someone to kill them over and over. The loser MUST lose something or else it will be unbalanced.

Shasz · Post by **Shasz** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:25 pm

Gaining XP for killing players will always be exploitable if the gain is worthwhile compared to the loss of XP to the losing character.

Some class / race / stat combinations are incredibly easy to level, and some are hard. All an enterprising exploiter has to do is get his Strength-based fighter to a levelling sweet spot where he can kill lots of critters quickly for 80-100xp a pop and make that his XP mule.

Then he starts his real character and kills the mule over and over. Even if the mule loses XP, its far easier to replace his XP than to gain it legitimately with the "real" character. Even at 2:1 or 3:1 ratios it would still be worth exploiting. Not until you get about 1/10th the xp you force the other guy to lose would it be more trouble than its worth to exploit, but then, is there much point in implementing it at all?

Perhaps a timer on how often you can gain XP from pvp against a given person... say once per day... would make it less exploitable.

I do agree that there should be some factional reward for killing other players though. I like the idea of factional artifacts that always drop as remains when a player is killed or logs out, used in a "capture the flag"-like scenario that builds some tangible bonus for your faction. The artifact would give the wielder / wearer some bonuses, and the more artifacts controlled by a faction, the stronger their guards are, or the more XP their team gets from killing critters or something useful.

Shasz · Post by **Shasz** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:25 pm

*Double post*

RumblingSky · Post by **RumblingSky** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:08 pm

Shasz wrote: Perhaps a timer on how often you can gain XP from pvp against a given person... say once per day... would make it less exploitable.

I like that.. though maybe it shouldn't quite that rare..

but now I'm wondering how can you create an xp mule and then log on with your main character to kill it. Even if you could run multiple instances on the same computer, it doesn't make sense that the same CD key could be logged in at the same time.